Steorn's Orbo: A future DC motor/generator for rotor craft?

C. Beaty

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Now Arnie, if you could just run your chain saw on charcoal gas while chopping up those trees for firewood, you’d totally free yourself from the evil Big Oil companies.

I drove the length of Spain during Franco’s heyday while he was a pariah to the European socialists. There was almost no gasoline available except to those able to pay in foreign currency.

Many, many Spanish cars had charcoal gas generators on the rear end with scrubbers on the roof. Top speed seemed to be about 20 mph.

I also saw wood burning railway locomotives stopped along the way with passengers out chopping wood.
 

RotoPlane

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There was a Freon engine article in "Private Pilot" magazine a few years back. A quantity of Freon XX was trapped between a specially sealed piston and electromagnetic head plug with no valves. This gas will expand when placed in an electromagnetic field. So the piston compressed the Freon and around TDC the magnetic field was turned on, expanding this gas which pressed the piston down….purrrr.

Sometime after this article, the inventor was demonstrating this engine and one of the reporters grabbed some wires and pulled them out….the engine exploded killing and injuring several people including the inventor. It was in the news, but I never heard another word about this engine……

Added:
I just found out the inventor was Joseph Papp. I saw the Bob Said report in Private Pilot (December 1968) "A Revolutionary Engine That Operates For 15 Cents per Hour Without Gasoline, Air, Combustion Or Exhaust, May Be Near"
The medium used was an inert noble gas, not Freon.
 
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Rotor Rooter

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Arnie & Chuck,

To much of this so called recycling and you'll turn your woodlot and Spain into an Easter Island.

"When the last palm was cut down there was no longer the wood to make the heavy canoes needed for long sea voyages or to hunt the porpoises that were an important part of the Islanders diet. With the porpoises gone the people had to turn even more to the seabirds, and then the rats, as a source of food. When they were gone, starvation resulted, the government collapsed and cannibalism appeared. Human bones started to find their way into trash pits."

:rip:
 

C. Beaty

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Jay Carter Sr. (Junior is the Cartercopter proprietor) ran a Freon engined car for a bit.

There is no magic; the laws of thermodynamics still apply. The advantages are anything that will boil Freon works for fuel.

The maximum possible efficiency for any heat engine, Carnot efficiency, =(T1-T2)/T1 where T1 and T2 are the absolute temperatures of the working substance as received and exhausted. Degrees Rankine for us and degrees Kelvin for most everyone else.
 

Rotor Rooter

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The science:
The vast majority of people believe that the universe is a reality. It is a reality that appears to have many dimensions of unlimited scope.
Science is only a man-made attempt to try and explain reality, in today's limited terms of reference.

The question:
Does science state that perpetual motion cannot exist in the universe? Is solar radiation and solar wind subject to limits?

The airplane:
Solar powered airplanes can already stay aloft day and night for an unlimited period of time.

The helicopter:
The side-by-side is questionably the most efficient configuration. Paul Cornu's helicopters had a gross weight to power ratio of 20lbs/hp for his 40 lbs model, and 24lbs/hp for his 573 lbs full-size craft.
It has been shown that very slow turning rotors with very large blade chords are significantly more efficient than the conventional blades.
These high aspect ratio blades will be able to provide a large area for solar cells, particularly the new higher efficiency solar cells that are being researched and developed.

The objective:
To build and then permanently position one of these R/C electric helicopters over my house to see if my wife invites the postman, the milkman or any of the male neighbors in when I'm at work.
___________

Shares in the company are for sale at $1.99 each.
Purchase, or rental of one of these 'spy' helicopters is available for 33% of the divorce settlement.
 

Arnie Madsen

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Hi Dave

Yes you are right about Easter Island. Some native populations have no concept of debits and credits and consequences, even to this day.

In my case we have 500 acres of land (my dad was a farmer) and about 100 acres is river property bordered with trees. For 150 years these trees have provided heat for homes here and at one time the local schoolhouse as well. The only wood we harvest is deadfall , beaver kill , wind damage etc. and there are more trees now than there were 200 years ago. (prairie fires burned a lot of trees before mankind started farming the land). Other Family members use the property for recreation and every trip back to the city they bring a load of firewood to burn in a fireplace for supplement heat. Modern high end clean burning fireplace inserts are very efficient. I bet his neighbors never smell smoke.

Some neighbors harvest live trees on their property (thinning) and find the remaining trees grow twice as fast. They also have more trees now than 100 years ago.

On a side note , my dad used his remaining 400 acres to grow food for hundreds of thousands of people in a hungry world. He never received a single nickel of government help or subsidy. By choice he used a bicycle (he was originally from Denmark) to get from field to field instead of using a pick up truck. He claims he made more money from his bicycle than any other piece of equipment on his farm.

By calculating the cost to purchase trucks , gas , repairs and insurance to run 50 years worth of pickup trucks will give you an idea how that works. Then calculate if those yearly funds saved were put in savings and investments over a 50 year period your eyes would get real big.

My dad was a quiet uncomplicated man who got along with everybody , that is except for environmentalists and financial planners and government agents who were trying to give advice to a dumb farmer.

We have some problems to deal with in this world , but the solutions will never come from leftist mansion dwellers who do not even know how to cut their own grass, let alone grow a potato or ride a bicycle or fix a pickup truck. When they need money they take it from others. Yes my dad paid taxes too. The leftists have to get money from somewhere .

Best regards
Arnie
 

Arnie Madsen

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Dave I always like your slant on things. I want one of those solar helicopters thingys over my house.

I already have an ex-wives club and want to keep any new recruits from my door. Will it work for that ? Where do I send the money? :)
 

Rotor Rooter

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Hi Arnie,

Thanks for posting about your father and your family living within nature. It is a self-sustaining and healthy attitude, IMHO.

The Western world has changed a lot over the past century. It has gone from a productive society to a monetarist one. I cannot recall the exact numbers, but this morning's paper said that the US Gross Domestic Product has gone from being 22% Financial related a couple of decades ago, to now being 40% Financial related.

IF 'the system' were ever to totally collapse, you are holding the best assets.

Dave
 

Arnie Madsen

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Thanks Dave. Your quote
"if 'the system' were ever to totally collapse, you are holding the best assets."
you have that exactly right . Our families could live off the land to provide food and warmth and water as needed. The worry is if thousands (millions) of people come from the city looking for something to eat. Can't feed them all. Scarry thought.
**********************************************************

Ed (rotoplane) First time I heard about Joseph Papp .... I found a link which talks about his 1968 private pilot article http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html .Interesting.

*************************************************************
I have no opinion on the Papp engine but it brought to mind a promotional video I was invited to watch for a few friends who wanted to invest in a miracle gas powered engine. If I remember it was Browns Gas which is a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. Anyway he did some snazzy experiments showing how when burned it produced only water as exhaust. (that is what hydrogen does by the way , nothing new there)

But he saved his best experiment till last. He had a 454 Chev big block engine on a stand , removed the sparkplugs , and then hooked up a line from one sparkplug hole direct to the steel tank of Browns Gas and gave a very convincing demonstration of the power of the gas without even igniting it !!

He had a convincing display. He attached a large Sears Craftsman torque wrench to the front crank bolt with the handle resting on the bench. To give the audience (investors) an example of the torque his "magic gas" could produce , he let some of the gas into the piston and the torque wrench went to its maximum of 400 foot pounds and then broke.

Another clever part of his display was a pile of similar broken wrenches from previous tests. He said Sears quit replacing them on lifetime warranty because they said he was abusing the tools. He even produced a copy of the letter from Sears head office. It was a pretty clever sales aid for snake oil. Everybody was amazed and ready to pull their wallets out.

My freinds wanted to invest too . But had asked my opinion. These were intelligent guys so I asked them how much air was in the tires of their car. (30 psi.) I said pretend you hooked a hose from one tire to the sparkplug hole of a 454 engine that had a piston surface area of 10 square inches ..... how much pressure would it exert? . They did the calculation. Then I said you have a 4" lever arm on the crankshaft ... how much torque on the crankshaft bolt and torque wrench?. They did the calculation and were catching on to the snake oil.

Having some fun I had them calculate using a 2000 psi welders oxy tank instead of a spare tire. Breaking torque wrenches never looked so easy ..... :)

But I saved the best part for last. I said for REAL power you have to lubricate the piston with genuine snake oil .

I love these topics
Arnie
 

RotoPlane

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Thank you Arnie for that link….very interesting. As I remember it, the gas he used, after being compressed by the piston, would expand with explosive force when subjected to a magnetic field and then would drop back to a compressed state when that field was removed. His Volvo engine ran in an enclosed room for hours with people there observing it operating….with very little heat, no exhaust and no fuel tank, producing around 100 hp. I find this engine veeerrrry interesting.

I was wondering….with ~20 years of using wood, have you been able to reduce the tree-to-stove-labor? I moved to coal after a couple of years, because of all that labor ;).
 

perbgyro

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Orbo's claims getting close to being verified.

http://jnaudin.free.fr/steorn/indexen.htm

I don't think this technology could be down sized to fit on a gyro any time soon. I see large sizes similar to a home diesel generator.

What I see that could be possible in the near term is the electric motor from china matched with this technology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEStor.

Maybe an orbo generator charging EEStor cells for an electric gyro.

At what point does a gyro become too light weight to be stable?
 

perbgyro

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What? You probably thought a solar panel was a scam and over unity.
 

brett s

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Solar panels don't claim to output more energy than is input.
 

C. Beaty

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When I was a kid, everyone knew of someone whose uncle had invented a trick carburetor that would make his Model A Ford go 100 miles on a gallon of gas.

Naturally, the Big Oil companies had bought up the patents to keep it off the market.

Same story; different words.
 
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Arnie Madsen

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Scheduled for 1600 GMT Saturday 30 January 2010

Some highlights from the Jan 30 "demonstration":

..... The cameras "went live" again right around 15:45 GMT, beginning intermittently and finally stabilizing and streaming both video and audio....

.... The most interesting new element of today's demonstration was an Orbo configuration with a scope output showing a claimed cumulative electrical energy output of 327% more than the cumulative energy input ..

... "The net efficiency during this run, electrical to electrical, let me be clear about that, is 327% and that excludes any work done by the system against friction, which is limited because we're using magnetic bearings, and air resistance."....

... Several attendees seemed frustrated and disappointed that there was not more to the demonstration. This is not surprising, considering the splashy claim headlined as "Final demo: Proving overunity."....

.... Publication of previously promised calorimetric proof, full measurements, and test results are not yet evident on the Steorn website, but McCarthy today reiterated the promise that extensive data reporting of today's tests and the results of the other demonstrations will soon appear there....

.... What are the prospects of Orbo technology on the market in the near future? ... "It's not going to be in your mobile phone in two months. It needs lots and lots of engineering to get there."....

... Conclusive proof that Orbo is a true overunity technology will still require extensive effort and universal availability to become widely accepted...

... "We are not going to put out the optimum or the maximum into the public domain, we're putting in what we believe is sufficient to prove our point.... this is not, for, to be frank at this point, for the general public, our market for this is developers." ...



Timeline
=2006 Proof of 327% overunity "will soon be there"
=2007 Proof of 327% overunity "will soon be there"
=2008 Proof of 327% overunity "will soon be there"
=2009 Proof of 327% overunity "will soon be there"
=2010 Proof of 327% overunity "will soon be there"

Summary:
-- Proof of 327% overunity "will soon be there"
-- Final demo: Proving overunity January 30 2010
-- It just needs lots and lots of engineering to get there.
 

perbgyro

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Solar panels don't claim to output more energy than is input.
Gee, there is no power supply hooked up to a solar panel and it sits there and can produce energy. No one thought you could get electricity out of the sun. Same thing for magnets. Just because nothing has harnessed magnets yet, doesn't mean that there is no possible means to do so. We're just in the pre-solar stage with respect to magnets. Nothing is over unity, but it seems that way when an energy source is not understood.

How can this be a scam when people are already reproducing the various statements without a dime going to the inventor. Enough has been disclosed to build and reproduce the experiement yourself.
 
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