Sportcopter Gyro for Sale - SOLD

[Terry_Smith]

Well, a former Chapter One member has a Sportcopter Gyro for sale. This would be a Lightning Model with a Rotax 503 engine. This is the information that the current owner provided me:

The original owner purchased the kit and started flying in 2006. Jim purchased it in May 2019. He has never flown it and it has been stored under cover for the last 5 years. When he purchased it, the owner demonstrated the copter and flew it around and landed it several times. It was running great. He told Jim the engine is a Rotax 503, new in 2006 with 182 hrs per his log book. Rotors are Sport Copter 24 ft diameter - we kept in box.

I am asking $8,000, but of course, will consider all offers. Plane is for sale "as is" and not in airworthy condition. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find a folder that had information about our purchase of it. It was stored under a large pop up canopy, stored outside between our house and fence with engine, propeller, carberators, oil tank, rotor head and instrument panel individually covered with plastic. We also hung a curtain on the weather and sunny side. (We really don't get much weather here in San Diego area.)

Dave Bacon mentioned to me that he saw the gyro and said it looked in decent condition. So, if anyone is possibly interested in a Sportcopter Gyro, the owner is willing to negotiate price. You can reach them at their email - Marcie Farthing [email protected]

 

[Sv.grainne]

With no paperwork this is very dubious. Not much you can do with it.

 

[GyroRon]

With no paperwork this is very dubious. Not much you can do with it.

Incorrect. You can absolutely buy this thing, go over everything and inspect it throughout, probably will need fuel lines replaced, and prop checked over etc... and then.... GO FLY THE THING.

Will it be legal with no N number? Nope. But the N number doesn't make it fly any better, nor does the lack of N number stop it from flying.

And from the perspective of parts alone, even at 8 grand there is likely 8 grand in parts sitting there. Engine alone would be worth 3-4 grand by itself as it sits. Rotors another 2 grand easy. Rotorhead... Frame work.... Seat / Fuel tank... Tail group... Instrument pod... Control assembly... All parts that could be used in a new build if wanted.

 

[WaspAir]

Will it be legal with no N number? Nope. But the N number doesn't make it fly any better, nor does the lack of N number stop it from flying.

And people wonder why we get no respect from the Feds . . .

 

[j4flyer]

Isn’t the lightening model Jim’s ultralight version ?

 

[Aerofoam]

Since it should be gone through anyway, tear it down, rebuild it. If it is an ultralight, fly it.
If there is no way it will be an ultralight, use it as parts, get a 582 and a tall tail and rebuild it as a different aircraft.
Grey area to be sure, but I think you could build enough changes into it to call it parts for a different project.

 

[Terry_Smith]

Isn’t the lightening model Jim’s ultralight version ?

Yes it is....

 

[Kevin_Richey]

My SC Lightning weighed 340#. It differed from this one in that it had the folding mast option. Same DCDI 503 engine. Same 5 gal. SC fuel tank.
Same tires, wheels & disc brakes. 25' Sport Rotors, whereas this one has 24' blades.

My guess is that the folding mast option weighs less than 10# with the extra cheek plates & bolts. Same thin, original SR hub bar. The difference between 25' vs. 24' rotors? Likely <10#.

Rotor brake on mine was <10#.
Same tubing wall thickness as the Vortex had. JV told me that only the first two Lightnings had thinner wall tubing than the Vortex, in order to try to meet Part 103 weight restrictions. Those first two Lightnings had the air frame tubing bend under beginner's landings.

W/ the original 64" wood prop mated w/ that 503 engine, it would not fly faster than 63 mph.

So...a true Part 103 ultralight?
No, WRT empty weight, @ approximately 310#.

 

[Terry_Smith]

My SC Lightning weighed 340#. It differed from this one in that it had the folding mast option. Same DCDI 503 engine. Same 5 gal. SC fuel tank.
Same tires, wheels & disc brakes. 25' Sport Rotors, whereas this one has 24' blades.

My guess is that the folding mast option weighs less than 10# with the extra cheek plates & bolts. Same thin, original SR hub bar. The difference between 25' vs. 24' rotors? Likely <10#.

Rotor brake on mine was <10#.
Same tubing wall thickness as the Vortex had. JV told me that only the first two Lightnings had thinner wall tubing than the Vortex, in order to try to meet Part 103 weight restrictions. Those first two Lightnings had the air frame tubing bend under beginner's landings.

W/ the original 64" wood prop mated w/ that 503 engine, it would not fly faster than 63 mph.

So...a true Part 103 ultralight?
No, WRT empty weight, @ approximately 310#.

Kevin,

Thanks for Clarifying - I though it was built to be ultralight - I guess it was more of an entry level Sportcopter....

 

[dabkb2]

This is a great gyro. It needs to be gone through. N# could be a challenge, but doable.

 

[Gyronmore]

Interesting, I’m curios, I saw this on Barnstormers and out of curiosity I went to the Sportcopter (SC) site and on their features page they show empty weight of 280 lbs. but on their Price page they show 252 lbs. It seems weights are all over the place as Kevin suggested. So is the Lightning a true ultralight - just curios.

 

[Aerofoam]

Interesting, I’m curios, I saw this on Barnstormers and out of curiosity I went to the Sportcopter (SC) site and on their features page they show empty weight of 280 lbs. but on their Price page they show 252 lbs. It seems weights are all over the place as Kevin suggested. So is the Lightning a true ultralight - just curios.

That would be about the right difference for a wet, or dry weight with 5 gallons of fuel.......
But I have no clue...

 

[Gyro-nut]

My Lightning was not an ultralight. I had an air command 447, pull start, no instruments that came in (just barely) under the limit.
I doubt this lightning is a true ultralight.

 

[GyroRon]

And people wonder why we get no respect from the Feds . . .

I don't know where you live and what goes on around there, but everywhere in the south east USA there are still thousands of " ultralight " airplanes that are not ultralights at all, flying along happily, minding their own business, no N number and ZFG.

And its something I have not seen discussed much, but at least in my time in aviation over the last close to 30 years, I have come across a TON of " pilots" that have no actual ratings, or expired medicals... expired BFR's... etc...

I totally understand that rules are rules and this gyro is probably close to 300-350 pounds and therefore heavier than the 254 pound limit for Part 103... But really is a extra 50-100 pounds really hurting anything or anybody? I think there is a big difference between flying this sportcopter without a N number, and flying a big heavy two place sparrowhawk with no N number.

 

[Rattler 1]

And people wonder why we get no respect from the Feds . .

Well that goes both ways. They have yet to earn mine.

 

[WaspAir]

On another thread recently there were accusations against the gyro community of harboring an "anti-authority" dangerous attitude because we dared disagree with the NTSB on factual matters. That particular basis was bogus, but this one is not, and the attitude is obvious here.

Rules may be rules, but in this case, the rules are laws, and you don't get to pick the ones you like, regardless of your personal level of respect for lawmakers. Their authority does not require any respect for you.

Sure, some people routinely cheat on their taxes or drive after drinking, but I won't be endorsing such behavior, nor will I shed a tear when they get fined, jailed, or grounded as the case may be.

A touch of professionalism could really help this community rise out of the bush league, and legal compliance is part of that.

 

[Doug Riley]

It's quite possible to make an open-frame, single-place gyro Part 103 legal. But, man, you will have to forego creature comforts. Seat cover, brakes, instruments, prerotator -- all must go to make weight. The 503 DC is a great engine, but it's significantly heavier than a 447 -- you may have to swap powerplants and endure a sluggish climb in warm weather.

A plastic Hall windmeter might serve as your ASI. You can wear a wrist altimeter, which then won't count toward empty weight.

 

[Jazzenjohn]

In my opinion, the biggest obstacle to making weight in an ultralight is the attachment to doing things the easy way, doing things the way other people have always done them and failed, and using parts that are either cheap or convenient.
Props are one thing. If you use a Warp drive prop, you'd have to downgrade from a 503 to a 447 to save enough weight to pay for the extra weight the prop adds over and above the selection that is the lightest weight that does the job. Wood or Powerfin are the lightest in my experience. Sure the WD is a great prop and is bulletproof, but it weighs a lot more and does the same job.
Rotorblades are next. Dragon Wings are the lightest. Bensen and Brock blades are similarly light and hand startable, but are much lower performance. If you use Bensen blades you save the weight of a prerotator, but it will lower your performance about the same as going from a 503 to a 447. Razor Blades are the lightest blades you can buy today. They weigh a bit less Sport rotors. If you're using Skywheels because you think they are the best or you happen to have a set, ask yourself what are you going to chop off the gyro to save the extra 30+ pounds they weigh?
A Wunderlich prerotator may have been a luxury you couldn't afford the weight of many years ago, but there are several options today that work and aren't weighty. The handheld drill motor David McCutcheon has used is arguably the lightest as that weight is baggage and not counted. You don't even have to take it with you if you don't want to. He has also advocated a scooter motor that is very light, and brushless systems are also viable. The Nano has a complete Hydraulic prerotator system that weighs about 11 pounds or so and gets nearly 200 RRPM.
Look at the SC instrument panel, it probably weighs at least 10-15 pounds by itself. Belite or MGL or Kanardia instruments weigh only a few ounces Each. My instrument panel including base, supports, complete MGL engine monitor, altitude, airspeed, RRPM, hobbs, etc. is about a pound or so. The Nano instrument pod likely weighs half that, maybe less.
If you use the lightest piece of equipment that does the job, making ultralight weight isn't all that difficult, and if you do that, you may find room for some relatively light creature comforts like a seat cover, brakes, and instruments.

 

[RogerThat]

And people wonder why we get no respect from the Feds . . .

The feds don't respect anybody. The feds don't even respect themselves.

 

[RogerThat]

On another thread recently there were accusations against the gyro community of harboring an "anti-authority" dangerous attitude because we dared disagree with the NTSB on factual matters. That particular basis was bogus, but this one is not, and the attitude is obvious here.

Rules may be rules, but in this case, the rules are laws, and you don't get to pick the ones you like, regardless of your personal level of respect for lawmakers. Their authority does not require any respect for you.

Sure, some people routinely cheat on their taxes or drive after drinking, but I won't be endorsing such behavior, nor will I shed a tear when they get fined, jailed, or grounded as the case may be.

A touch of professionalism could really help this community rise out of the bush league, and legal compliance is part of that.

The feds deem everybody anti authority.... We're talking about paperwork on an auto gyro... Buy the auto gyro and then pay to have somebody inspect it, boom you have paperwork...