Sportcopter contact

Kevin_Richey

Yamaha power
Staff member
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
2,869
Location
@ 4,500' (N. Central AZ)
Aircraft
Dream-like
I love your products and you Jim, and if there is anything I can do to help you succeed, just let me know.
I may not know gyro's but I do know business and I hope this helps...

I’m willing to bet $5K if you asked the creditors in this suit and all the customers why he did not deliver or pay them back on time they will all tell you, that he is not a thief or dishonest in anyway.

They will all tell you it’s because he keeps making changes to improve his products until he feels they are perfect before he will deliver anything.

Because of his perfectionist nature Jim products are all the best, never heard anyone say anything different.

Being a perfectionist too, I understand, it was the hardest life lesson to learn to ignore my nature of it has to be perfect to “Sell it to those customers as soon as the product meets their BASIC needs and sell version 2,3,4 which will meet even more customers’ needs with each improvement”

Over the past 7 years answering the phone for PRA the only complaint I’ve ever heard about Jim and Sport Copter is he’s late delivering because he keeps making improvements.

The San Diego court often appointed me as a receiver in bankruptcies or reorganization. I became the professional management and made several of the companies profitable by forcing the owner to sell what he has, as is, to those customers that the product will meet their needs.

This is just an example and may not be what he’s currently improving.

My best advice would be:

In this case I would survey the customers with deposits asking are you going to use the M2 for mustering requiring much more power solution or for cross country cursing? If the 915iS works for cross country then we would finish all those customers with what works for them. And take new deposits for all products you can deliver today with a 915iS. Then use that profit from the 915iS's to develop the 2nd mustering version and deliver them went it meets their basic needs. Then start working on version 3 of the mustering version.
John: Knowing your dyslexia issues, I assume you meant cross-country cruising, & not cross-country cursing? 😅😂🤣
 

Kevin_Richey

Yamaha power
Staff member
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
2,869
Location
@ 4,500' (N. Central AZ)
Aircraft
Dream-like
For "thedailyplanet" Russian is not native language. Probably, took some old (maybe Chinese) saying and put through Google translator (which is not always perfect like in this case) to Russian. And now is happily trolling us. According to his "Russian" text a gyro can speak.
Georgi: Legitimate question here...not joking about it, but how does a gyro "speak" using russian text?
 

Andino

Active Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2022
Messages
231
Location
near London, U.K.
Aircraft
many FW airplanes + various autogyros
Total Flight Time
>1000 hours
Although I wish his company success in revival, the bloke's apology and forum reaction to it reminds me of this scene in the film Quiz Show. Color me less than enthralled by the "damage control," I suppose. I do wish all the affected parties well.

From 1:46:54 on:
 
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vkmaynard

Newbie
Joined
Apr 9, 2019
Messages
34
Location
Apex, NC
Jim has always been extremely helpful with my Sportcopter ownership. I called him for advice when purchasing my Vortex in 2019. He was very honest. He warned me in advance about the likely beat-up condition of this poorly maintained unit.

Many Sportcopter parts later, a lot of work and consultation it now flies great.

Recently order a smaller set of 24x7 Sport Rotors to replace my original 26x8 (too large). He built, tested and had them in my possession 2.5 week from order. These blades are amazing. Super quality and really fly great on my Sportcopter. Same opinion from others who have flown them on my gyro.

Tried other blades that were not a good match on my Vortex.

I paid for the blades upfront with no hesitation to let him know I was serious. Full trust in Jim.

Going to order his air trim / damping system next and also send payment in advance when he is ready.

The entire Sportcopter team has always been honest, available and responsive for sure. Their parts are super high quality.

Highly recommend Sportcopter. Looking forward to a ride in the M2 soon!

Victor
 

DavePA11

Super Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
1,373
Location
USA
Vance contacted me to discuss a permanent ban vs. a temporary one for name calling as the reason. As in, a stern warning followed w/ a time-out from the forum.

Also, Vance suggests that even the word "troll" could be considered name-calling, like "fools". It isn't that name-calling is the main problem, but the turmoil & division that wells up after the name-calling begins.
Do we really need this level of moderation in this forum? I think most posts are all good.
 

Andino

Active Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2022
Messages
231
Location
near London, U.K.
Aircraft
many FW airplanes + various autogyros
Total Flight Time
>1000 hours
Do we really need this level of moderation in this forum? I think most posts are all good.
I think the Moderators have done a fair job in this surprisingly dramatic thread (I seemed to have missed part of it), trying to tread the fine line between "damned if you do" and "damned if you don't." Invariably, not all parties can be appeased....
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Staff member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
17,485
Location
Santa Maria, California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2400+ in rotorcraft
Do we really need this level of moderation in this forum? I think most posts are all good.

Do we really need this level of moderation in this forum? I think most posts are all good.
The conversation we had was about the permanent banning of a forum member for calling someone a fool in Russian.

I felt that it would be impractical to be consistent and based on banning someone for calling someone a fool in Russian; several others on this thread would be permanently banned.

I agreed that the banned poster was making an effort to enflame some of the members of the Rotary Wing Forum.

I advocated for perhaps removing parts of the original post that were not factual and giving the poster a warning and a temporary ban for what appeared to be trolling.

I do not want to be at cross purposes with Kevin and I would like for the forum moderation to be consistent.

Kevin is a thoughtful and caring person and our conversations are often wide ranging because of our diverse life experiences.

It would be accurate to write that we did not reach agreement on how to address the situation and I suspect there will be more conversations on this subject.
 

Mayfield

Gold Supporter
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
1,332
Location
Avondale, Arizona
If the moderators ever get tired of their current gig, they are very qualified to take on a job herding cats. Most of us, into rotary wing aircraft, have proven that we are non-conforming by nature. That pretty much guarantees that we have diverse opinions on many subjects.

As a group, we also seem to be a bunch of nice guys and gals with a few rough edges.

I think the moderators do a decent job. I'm not qualified to judge whether they are too strict. I do know we came close to losing this forum because some of us insisted on crapping in Todd's house.

The rules here seem to be transparent. To paraphrase: own up to who you are, don't discuss politics, don't directly insult others.

Kevin or Vance will chime in if I'm wrong, but I think writing "Jim, you're an idiot" will get you a long walk off a short pier while writing "Jim, you are categorically wrong about xyz" will be acceptable.

I'm not going to list all the folks I enjoy reading; I would assuredly leave someone out. I learn from someone every day on this site and value the conversations here.

Jim
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Staff member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
17,485
Location
Santa Maria, California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2400+ in rotorcraft
That is a fundamental Jim; I only wish it was that black and white.

The goal is to moderate as little as practical.

At times we need to consider intent.

We don’t want to stand in the way of communication.

Things seem to escalate quickly of the Rotary Wing Forum.
 

Andino

Active Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2022
Messages
231
Location
near London, U.K.
Aircraft
many FW airplanes + various autogyros
Total Flight Time
>1000 hours
Sportcopter customers seem a loyal sort. A quality product naturally engenders such loyalty. It's one thing for them to praise prompt receipt of some parts (which may have already been in stock), but what I'm not reading here is any business plan regarding the mix of debt service vs. production capitalisation. The monthly interest burden is horrendous. And is there any account of where went the investor's $3,000,000 dollars? That's a grand amount of coin in a few short years for a small company. Recent bland assurances from the company are, well, blandly reassuring, but that's it? For $3,000,000, production should be well under way.
 

Philbennett

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
659
Location
London
+1. I don't get it. That isn't to say I should get it but the health issues, nice person aside in the end if there has been 3 - 4 bars invested that likely went somewhere and given the very cottage industry nature of all these gyroplane aircraft concerns there must be some output from that?

What I personally do not get is how when you bolt a stock Rotax product into the back of your aircraft how that makes it unsaleable? I am simplifying for the sake of brevity but surely that process is 1) buy Rotax 915 2) package 915 in your aircraft [which given they have the aero of a brick can mean bolting something out in the freestream] 3) start Rotax 915 4) go flying....

Does that rinse 4 bars? Not to me it doesn't.
 

DonBishop

Active Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
111
Location
Grizzly Flats
Aircraft
Mooney M20J
Total Flight Time
1200 hours
Since you can't sell a partial aircraft, it will take 8 M2's (at $140K each) to recover a million dollars. That doesn't seem like too daunting a task. I've been to the hangar and seen the oven used to vacuum bag the fuselage and then bake it. That was probably a million all on its own, not even counting the moulds used to shape the fuselage. I'm not an apologist for SportCopter, and the delays in production are both annoying and disturbing, but the financial end of it seems in line with designing, then building a new aircraft. The M2 is not a two seat M912. Perhaps it should have been, but there are significant changes between the models and new tooling had to be developed. I hope the debt does not overrun their ability to produce the M2, which was a pure joy to fly.
 

Andino

Active Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2022
Messages
231
Location
near London, U.K.
Aircraft
many FW airplanes + various autogyros
Total Flight Time
>1000 hours
I think they've had their oven for many years before the investment; I read something about it long ago. And, a million dollars revenue are gross receipts rather than net profit. I'd forgotten in my last post to wonder if all deposit money were spent on customers' parts. If not, then the company will have to buy those parts and materials themselves with additional funds. I hope that a competent and professional management team will have the data they need to contemplate a successful strategy.

What I personally do not get is how when you bolt a stock Rotax product into the back of your aircraft how that makes it unsaleable?
It seems to be an unfavourable power-to-weight issue, at least for mustering. One of the M2 updates mentioned dissatisfaction with the 915's output, coupled with a heavy 820 lb LSA gyro (compared to a Cavalon, Orion, Xenon, etc.). I don't know if bigger engines have yet been flown.
 

Philbennett

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
659
Location
London
I've been educating myself with reading updates off their site and given they start in 2018 and its now almost 5 years later I guess the cash burn is in a better context.

I read a max all up weight of 1300lbs? If correct thats <600kgs. A Rotax 915 at that weight isn't lacking in ability to perform, In a Cavalon at similar weight it will climb at almost 2000ft / min.
 

Terry_Smith

Gyroplane Fan
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Messages
581
Location
Southern California
Aircraft
Building a Sportcopter Vortex 582
Total Flight Time
3 - Some training and glider time
I have been working on my SportCopter for several years now, and mostly complete except for a few minor issues. Over the years, Jim and SportCopter have been OUTSTANDING in their help to me in getting this Gyro put together. I'm sure I've been a bit of a pain at time - I hate to think of the number of orders I've made to them over the years - but in all that, they have been WONDERFUL. I personally wish Jim and the team there at SportCopter all the best ,and hope they weather this storm. They have an excellent product and it would be a shame to see them vanish from the Gyro World.
 
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