Small Electric Gyro from Luminati

jany77

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208 kts with open cockpit ??? , they will be lucky to get 68 kts, probably scam
 

All_In

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Not sure over 10,000+ logged FW, 260+ ultralights, sailplane, hang-gliders
I called Luminati when I learned from Ernie he had just trained two more Luminati employees how to make Dragon Wings and he had sold DW's. Bummer for us. We lost Dragon Wings and then the beloved Dominator because Daniel Preston is a dick to his employees too.

When I called Luminati the receptionist said yes they were going to sell Dragon Wings and she transferred me to one of the employees Ernie trained. He was going to gear up for production and we exchanged cell phone numbers and ask him to call me as soon as they were for sale so I could announce it to our community.

Not sure of the time frame. Time and I are not good friends.

But he called me back sometime later telling me they had just quit. He explained that the first two employees Ernie trained had quit because of broken promises from Daniel Preston and he is a dick to work for.

He also told me that Luminati had bought 4 other companies besides Dragon Wings and Luminati is not producing any of their products either.
All the trained employees quit.
 
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All_In

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Not sure over 10,000+ logged FW, 260+ ultralights, sailplane, hang-gliders
Besides being an aerospace engineer he was also "at one time" one of the largest organic corn producers in New York !!!
I wondered where he got money to buy all of those companies.
More of the story...
On one of the phone calls to Ernie, he told me that Luminati 1st came to him and was paying BIG BUCKS to make blades with holes drilled on the underside.
Daniel does have great ideas but does no research before he spends his money from what I've learned 1st hand.

That same year I saw Luminati's display at Oshkosh and Ernie's new blades with LED's mounted in the holes turning them into night sky-writing aircraft.

I talked to them for a while. My first question was how were they going to sell the service when you cannot use experimental aircraft for commercial use. He/they did not know you could not use them to earn money flying unless the aircraft has a LODA for flight training.

He was bummed out!!
I told him they could way overcharge to create the display but would have to find a pilot who would fly for fun or an educational experience.
Or offer night flight training.
I've not seen his services offered so expect they finally researched the FAA reg's and discovered it was illegal.
Today if they bought a certified Cavalon this business would work.
 

GyrOZprey

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Another .."PalV" / Terrafugia ...DREAM!!! ...as soon as I saw "Luminate & Dan Preston " ...mentioned ...everything screamed to me "pipe-dream /SCAM!" (Just ask Ernie - how these $ grabbing swindlers work!!!) ...as our highly respected Vance so generously points out ...good for them to try ...BUT ..please DO NOT display at respected air shows until ..you have a working demonstrator! ... until then it is ALL just "Fluff'n hype"!!!! ...just my 2c ..."but what do I know" ( as Steve McG ...so often sez!!!):ROFLMAO:
 

Tyger

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I talked to them for a while. My first question was how were they going to sell the service when you cannot use experimental aircraft for commercial use. He/they did not know you could not use them to earn money flying unless the aircraft has a LODA for flight training.

He was bummed out!!
I told him they could way overcharge to create the display but would have to find a pilot who would fly for fun or an educational experience.
Or offer night flight training.
I've not seen his services offered so expect they finally researched the FAA reg's and discovered it was illegal.
Today if they bought a certified Cavalon this business would work.
A "certified" Cavalon as in primary category??
 
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Tyger

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I thought those were pretty much the same as E-AB as far as commercial use...
 

JEFF TIPTON

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Special Airworthiness Certificate​

Primary Category​

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A Primary Category, special airworthiness certificate is issued to operate aircraft that have been type certificated in the primary category. Aircraft in this category are of a simple design and intended exclusively for pleasure and personal use. Although these aircraft may be available for rental and flight instruction under certain conditions, the carrying of persons or property for hire is prohibited.

Aircraft certificated in this category must be manufactured under a production certificate. This includes aircraft assembled from a kit under the production certificate holder's supervision and quality control system. Kit-built aircraft built without the production certificate holder's supervision are only eligible for certification in the experimental category.

 

All_In

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Not sure over 10,000+ logged FW, 260+ ultralights, sailplane, hang-gliders
I thought those were pretty much the same as E-AB as far as commercial use...
I know of several that are being rented out on flight lines, Clubs, aerial photography, crop inspection etc.
The way they explained it to me... was the only exception is they cannot charge to carry people for hire.
 

Tyger

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I know of several that are being rented out on flight lines, Clubs, aerial photography, crop inspection etc.
The way they explained it to me... was the only exception is they cannot charge to carry people for hire.
Hmm, the way it was explained to me is that "persons or property for hire" includes carrying such things as cameras, etc. and you'd need a letter from the FAA to do almost anything that requires payment. I believe, the way things stand now, that means an exemption for primary category, not a mere LoDA, as for E-ABs.
When you say you "know of several", are you talking about Cavalons specifically?
 
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All_In

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Not sure over 10,000+ logged FW, 260+ ultralights, sailplane, hang-gliders
Yes, Tyger ...
I've not asked the FAA, so I'm not sure. Solely reporting that only Cavalons registered in the primary category, are being used as any FBO would rent out a plane to a qualified pilot and other qualified pilots/owners are making a living with mounted cameras and Lidar as I could in any certified aircraft.
 

All_In

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Not sure over 10,000+ logged FW, 260+ ultralights, sailplane, hang-gliders
Wish Micheal Burton still posted here. I know he's mounted at least one Lidar, and suspect several other Lidars in Cavalon's.
They are not using them for navigation aids as most Lidar's do not have a real-time display.
 

JEFF TIPTON

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§ 91.325 Primary category aircraft: Operating limitations.​


(a) No person may operate a primary category aircraft carrying persons or property for compensation or hire.

(b) No person may operate a primary category aircraft that is maintained by the pilot-owner under an approved special inspection and maintenance program except -

(1) The pilot-owner; or
(2) A designee of the pilot-owner, provided that the pilot-owner does not receive compensation for the use of the aircraft.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_21-37.pdf Page 12 - 13

FAR Part 91 - General Operating and Flight Rules.

a. Section 91.325 lists operating limitations unique to primary category aircraft. No person may operate a primary category aircraft carrying persons or property for compensation or hire. If maintained by an FAA-certificated mechanic or appropriately rated repair station, a primary category aircraft may be rented for personal use as well as rented for flight instruction. 12 Par 21 6/14/94 JOHN K. MCGRATH Manager,

AC 21-37 b. Section 91.325(b) permits a person other than the pilot owner to operate a primary category aircraft maintained by the pilot-owner as long as the pilot-owner is not compensated for use of the aircraft. For example, this allows a pilot-owner to lend the aircraft to a pilot friend or to demonstrate the aircraft to a prospective buyer. It also allows a pilot-owner whose certificate is not current to regain currency using a certificated flight instructor in the pilot-owner's self maintained primary category aircraft.

c. The 12-month annual inspection required by§ 91.409(a) is required for primary category aircraft that have been issued an airworthiness certificate under§ 21.184. In addition, the 100-hour inspection required by§ 91.409(b) is required if the aircraft is used for rental or flight instruction. Pilot-owners that do not also hold airframe and powerplant mechanic ratings and/or inspection authorizations are not authorized to perform the inspections.
 

All_In

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Not sure over 10,000+ logged FW, 260+ ultralights, sailplane, hang-gliders
That clears it up for me. I need to reach out to a few pilots/friends with this information.

Which now has me thinking of Catch 22s???
Definition "Carrying" = to support and move (someone or something) from one place to another.
Which legally means you put something or someone in the aircraft and then take it out.

Question:
If the Lidar or camera is physically attached to the Cavalon as part of the build and it always makes the return trip no matter what mission you are flying.
Then you could give flight instruction or rent it out to a qualified pilot for their personal use documenting it with cameras and Lidar for the student or qualified pilot's/Professor's personal use.
Henry video's students and gives them the memory stick of their flight each lesson. This is the same just better equipment and permanently mounted as part of the aircraft???
 
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fara

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I know of several that are being rented out on flight lines, Clubs, aerial photography, crop inspection etc.
The way they explained it to me... was the only exception is they cannot charge to carry people for hire.

They better hope no one sends FAA to check their operations out. Its people or property. Using LIDAR or aerial photography or crop dusting or anything that makes money doing it is not kosher. Its a restricted non-ICAO Type certificate. They are getting some really bad advice possibly from someone from FAA but certainly not from FAA Washington lawyers who alone hold the key to that. Before them QuickSilver GT-500 was PC certified and so was a Rans. They all gave it up because they also could not really do much beyond simple rental and instruction with PC.
 
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WaspAir

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Don't rely on that 1994 Advisory Circular . The FAA has messed up everything this year in response to the Warbirds case, and the bizarre but currently applicable interpretation that all flight instruction is by definition carrying persons for compensation. LODAs are easily available for Experimentals but not authorized by statute for Primary (an exemption is necessary and much harder to get).
 

Tyger

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What's even crazier, in the new interpretation a flight instructor is being "compensated" even if he does it for free!
The IRS would love that one – they could tax a boy scout on the value of helping granny across the street.
 
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