Slightly Bent Twinstar gyroplane for sale!

Tyger

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Why did you not have a redundant second fuel supply? (Outlet from tank , second filter, and stand alone second pump) every gyro I have flown has a redundant fuel ( or as the Germans refer to it a boost pump configuration)
That's interesting. My gyro has an auxiliary electric pump (mechanical primary), but there's only one outlet from the tank and one fine fuel filter prior to both pumps.
 

GyroRon

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Why did you not have a redundant second fuel supply? (Outlet from tank , second filter, and stand alone second pump) every gyro I have flown has a redundant fuel ( or as the Germans refer to it a boost pump configuration)
The gyro was put together by someone else besides me greg. It had almost 300 hours on the hobbs meter, so I wasn't super concerned with how the fuel system was designed.

Even if the gyro had what your describing, as low as I was, had the engine lost power like it did, I was too low to switch to some redundant system to relight the fires so to speak.

Had the gyro had a gascolator instead of a automotive fuel filter the silicone would not have caused a problem. Of course had some dummy not used silicone to seal up the fuel level sending unit, it wouldn't have mattered.
 

GyroRon

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Glad you can and did write about it Ron. We can all learn valuable information from that. Makes me hurt to hear it though. Twinstar broke my right little finger once so I can relate a "tiny" bit. Hand propping that baby is tough, "don't try this at home" tough. Hope it all works out for you buddy.

My shoulder " works " and it isn't stopping me from doing anything I would have done before the accident, but it feels weird, skin is still numb where they cut me open, and now when I have my backpack leaf blower on my back.... where the strap goes over my shoulder sometimes hurts.

I hate this whole thing happened. I have been fooling with gyros since 2001 and have flown a ton of different machines and flown a ton of hours and never hurt a gyro or myself in the process. I've had all kinds of " Reputation " over the years, everything from.... Wow Ron can fly the hell out of a gyro, to Wow Ron is one of the best, to That Ron is a accident waiting to happen... But regardless of any of it, I had never balled up a gyro.... Till now! So I hate that I now have a negative mark on my reputation. Also not happy that I had to pay over $8700 towards my medical bills thanks to a high deductable insurance plan. And of course not happy that my buddy had forked over a amount, more than what a new cars costs for a gyroplane that I recommended and on the first flight it ends up torn up, and now we are just trying to sell it as a project or parts sale. And lastly, Although what I did was not illegal and I didn't do anything wrong with the flight itself... Having not seen the logs prior to flying it, I did not know that the gyro had not had its original 40 hour sign off done, and did not have a condition inspection performed in over a decade.... The FAA is not going to let me slide on that, they want to make sure to punish me somehow someway, as they know I am a " somebody " in the gyro community and that hopefully I will use this as a way to help educate people in the gyro community to spend some time making sure that the paperwork is in order before they fly their machines or especially someone else's.
 

Tyger

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Ooo, you hadn't previously mentioned not having the 40 hours, nor a condition inspection... that's gonna be tough. :cautious:
I don't think I'd purchase, or even test fly, someone else's gyro without having a good look at all the logbooks. It can be surprising the things you find (or don't find) in those.
 

DavePA11

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Shit happens Ron! I felt that way flying Bush planes until I hit a huge down draft on perfectly calm day between 3 13k mountains pushing me into the ground… Darn, I didn’t know FAA was involved. All good feedback to learn from. Thanks for sharing. You are the best! How would anyone know your background in aviation?

I didn’t know you were injured either. Hope you are okay or on way to recovery. I’ve been spending 12 plus hours a day with my wife in a hospital for past 90 days now. 4 more months planned… ugh
 
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DavePA11

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Ooo, you hadn't previously mentioned not having the 40 hours, nor a condition inspection... that's gonna be tough. :cautious:
I don't think I'd purchase, or even test fly, someone else's gyro without having a good look at all the logbooks. It can be surprising the things you find (or don't find) in those.
Well, I have seen in the trike and gyrocopter world log entries are not always true depending on the owner. Seen some owners not do annual condition inspection then fudge the log book. Saw one owner wire up a switch to turn off the Hobbs while flying… There is no way to know how many hours on the engine… If logs show too low hours then be suspect. I won’t go flying with them…
 

Tyger

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That's true, Dave, and it definitely helps to know, or at least have some information on, the person who made the entries. But you might be able to tell if things are "pencil-whipped" just by having a look at the entries themselves, to include the dates and the order in which the entries were made.
But of course missing "entries" are some of the biggest things to look for...
 
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WaspAir

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The FAA approach is that airworthiness isn't just a question of mechanically sound condition, but of proper documentation as well. To them, a missing log entry is like a missing rotor blade; without it, the aircraft isn't in a safe condition to fly. I have always been nervous about running afoul of that, so much so that I once declined to do a ferry flight on a completely rebuilt pristine looking A&S18A (after traveling 1500 miles to pick it up) because it didn't have current registration, flight manual, and weight/balance docs on board (it was in dandy condition otherwise). Fortunately, you can reproduce many such things via the internet now pretty promptly but pencil-whipped or missing inspections are harder to cope with. Hope the FAA isn't in a harsh mood with you!

P.S. If you are a regular participant in the WINGS program, the FAA is likely to be kinder and gentler on transgressions.
 

MikeBoyette

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My shoulder " works " and it isn't stopping me from doing anything I would have done before the accident, but it feels weird, skin is still numb where they cut me open, and now when I have my backpack leaf blower on my back.... where the strap goes over my shoulder sometimes hurts.

I hate this whole thing happened. I have been fooling with gyros since 2001 and have flown a ton of different machines and flown a ton of hours and never hurt a gyro or myself in the process. I've had all kinds of " Reputation " over the years, everything from.... Wow Ron can fly the hell out of a gyro, to Wow Ron is one of the best, to That Ron is a accident waiting to happen... But regardless of any of it, I had never balled up a gyro.... Till now! So I hate that I now have a negative mark on my reputation. Also not happy that I had to pay over $8700 towards my medical bills thanks to a high deductable insurance plan. And of course not happy that my buddy had forked over a amount, more than what a new cars costs for a gyroplane that I recommended and on the first flight it ends up torn up, and now we are just trying to sell it as a project or parts sale. And lastly, Although what I did was not illegal and I didn't do anything wrong with the flight itself... Having not seen the logs prior to flying it, I did not know that the gyro had not had its original 40 hour sign off done, and did not have a condition inspection performed in over a decade.... The FAA is not going to let me slide on that, they want to make sure to punish me somehow someway, as they know I am a " somebody " in the gyro community and that hopefully I will use this as a way to help educate people in the gyro community to spend some time making sure that the paperwork is in order before they fly their machines or especially someone else's.
Damn that sucks. Looks like your YouTube fame bit you.
 

GyroRon

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Ooo, you hadn't previously mentioned not having the 40 hours, nor a condition inspection... that's gonna be tough. :cautious:
I don't think I'd purchase, or even test fly, someone else's gyro without having a good look at all the logbooks. It can be surprising the things you find (or don't find) in those.
Yeah, I figured anyone who built a gyro as nice and detailed at this one, would have had nice detailed logs as well. I wasn't there when the seller dropped the gyro off and when I came to see the gyro that Saturday morning there were no logs with the gyro. I assumed my buddy had the logs.
 

GyroRon

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Ooo, you hadn't previously mentioned not having the 40 hours, nor a condition inspection... that's gonna be tough. :cautious:
I don't think I'd purchase, or even test fly, someone else's gyro without having a good look at all the logbooks. It can be surprising the things you find (or don't find) in those.
I didn't know it didn't have the 40 hour flown off log book entry either. FAA told me that! I never saw the log books until weeks after the accident. Turns out the seller didn't even bring the log books with him when he brought the gyro to us, He mailed them to my buddy a few weeks later. I was unaware....

And honestly, a lot of people I know don't care too much about log books when it comes to ultralights and experimental stuff like gyros. You might be surprised how many gyros and fat ultralights are out there flying with no N numbers, no annuals, no test phase flown off, no log books etc.... I personally wasn't too concerned with the log books, I was basing whether I flew the gyro on what I could see and how it appeared to me, and it appeared and seemed to be in top shape and ready to go.... And it was other than the fact that there was silicone in the fuel tank, and I guess you can also say it also had paperwork issues
 

GyroRon

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The FAA approach is that airworthiness isn't just a question of mechanically sound condition, but of proper documentation as well. To them, a missing log entry is like a missing rotor blade; without it, the aircraft isn't in a safe condition to fly. I have always been nervous about running afoul of that, so much so that I once declined to do a ferry flight on a completely rebuilt pristine looking A&S18A (after traveling 1500 miles to pick it up) because it didn't have current registration, flight manual, and weight/balance docs on board (it was in dandy condition otherwise). Fortunately, you can reproduce many such things via the internet now pretty promptly but pencil-whipped or missing inspections are harder to cope with. Hope the FAA isn't in a harsh mood with you!

P.S. If you are a regular participant in the WINGS program, the FAA is likely to be kinder and gentler on transgressions.

The inspector I have been dealing with told me flat out that he doesn't want to punish me harshly. He wants me to do some sort of remedial training. I am just waiting for him to send me the info on what all I need to do.

I tried to suggest to him, nicely I will add, that between a injury... probably over 9 grand out of pocket in medical bills... a close to 40 grand gyro reduced to partout value.... and a angry wife that is mad I could have died while test flying someone else's gyro.... That I have learned my lesson and that anything he ( the FAA ) does is just salt in the wound. But did tell him that I understand that if he needs to officially do something, whatever it is I will accept it and do whatever it is and get on with life.
 

GyroRon

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Damn that sucks. Looks like your YouTube fame bit you.
I think it was own mouth that did that... I told him early into our talks that I am well known in the gyro community and that I have test flown probably over 100 gyros over the years.
 

MikeBoyette

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I think it was own mouth that did that... I told him early into our talks that I am well known in the gyro community and that I have test flown probably over 100 gyros over the years.
Oh I was thinking the FAA may have considered you infamous.
 

Jazzenjohn

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Wow, I've seen that gyro at different events for literally Years and it didn't get the 40 hour sign off?? It was a very very clean and appeared to be a very well kept up gyro. It is a very harsh lesson that looks can be deceiving... Sorry for your misfortune Ron, You have been a huge help in the gyro community making sure peoples machines were flightworthy over many years. You checked out my first gyro and have critiqued several since looking for problems Before there were accidents. I know many gyros you've found problematical like the one with the HS that had the angle of incidence positive instead of negative. You saved that guy from a dangerous, quite possibly fatal, accident he would have had on his first flight. You've uncovered several with control issues like bad heim joints and several with bending loads at control extremes. Too many to mention. You've taken many up on first flights where they needed initial control trimming that a less experienced pilot might have found to be more than they could handle. I hope the FAA recognizes the hard work and good deeds you've done for making gyros safer over many years.
 

GyroRon

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Thanks John.

Yeah, looks can be deceiving for sure. It was how nice this thing looked and the fact that it has a Lycoming, that I didn't use more caution ( things like tying it to my truck to ground run the engine, or taking off towards the golf course verses the way I went which is towards the woods, etc... )

And I didn't even give any thought to the paperwork, because who builds such a finely detailed machine and doesn't have detailed and complete logs.....
 

Jazzenjohn

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It doesn't sound like you did anything that would get your airport shut down Ron, or somehow ruin or endanger flying for other pilots. I would hope that the FAA would perhaps leave it at counseling. It is very difficult, almost impossible, to get people to help test fly older/homebuilt gyros. (That gyro was like 10-15 Years old wasn't it?) If it's too onerous and problematical for pilots to help other pilots, I believe things will get worse, not better.
I don't know if the people you've helped in the past have expressed their appreciation well enough, so let me thank you again for test flying my first gyro and giving a critical appraisal on the next 3 I built. I know your honesty has sometimes ruffled some feathers, mine included, but there are some of us that recognize that even if it stings a bit at first, it has great value. You told me my first gyro was underpowered and the blades were low performing and it wasn't fun to fly because of that, but you got it trimmed up and I knew what to expect when I flew it the first time. With my low experience, It could have gone sideways or worse without your advice. I made the changes you recommended, and it became a good flying gyro. I watch you when you inspect a gyro you're going to test fly and use that to build a better preflight.
 
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