Short fields, grass/gravel fields, backcountry flying

Tyger

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Will the AR in the Outback version now mean Aussie Ranger? It's kind of like changing what NOTAM stands for... ☺️
 

Abid

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I was told just to peel off the tape, fix the ding, and put the new tape back on. Is it hard to peel off and replace?
Its not tape on warp drive
 

Cookie

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Hey all! I'm in the process of getting my order ready for an AR-1 (Hi Abid!) and would like some opinions. I live in Northern AZ (Sedona) and like the idea of visiting some 'backcountry' strips. Nothing too crazy - I'm talking real, established strips (88AZ, 24AZ, AZ66) to visit and camp. For this reason, I'm thinking of getting bigger tires with the associated bigger fairings, etc.

I'm wondering if many people do this type of flying? I don't see the gyro as a true STOL-type of vehicle like you see with cubs and tundra tires landing in crazy places, but I'd like to think it would be good for the places mentioned above? I'd love to hear opinions!
Following, as I want to do back country too!
 

ventana7

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IMHO the biggest concern is not your tires but your pusher prop- though tundra tires might also make that worse.
I love landing my Xenon (with regular tires) on dirt or grass strips- but always worry taking off from them as you can kick stuff up into your prop.

I actually planned a route from Colorado to Oshkosh where I could land on dirt or grass all the way there but could take-off from a paved runway at each of those same airports.

I am assuming you are getting your AR1 with a turbo for KSEZ.

Rob
 

Cookie

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Yes, I agree. While the disk is more or less stable in wanting to go in its direction of travel, the fuselage is free to move in an undulating fashion. The movement of the stick tells you the difference between the intent of the rotor and the movement of the fuselage which is connected by effectively a u-joint further connected by control rods. The grip of the tires to the terrain is at odds with what the rotor wants to do. With the nose wheel off the ground and the machine is a speed where the rudder is weak, what do you have at your disposal to correct that bump and causes the veer? Without differential braking and smart rotor management you are or can be in trouble. That brief period of time, whether it be departures or landing, where the thing you are strapped into transitions from some that rolls to something that flies or vice Veras, should be kept short and controled.

I was flying around my local area. Just a short hop and I didn’t check the weather. While I was up a front blew through. I had time out gazzuuzuuu with this plane. I got this I told myself. The maximum cross wind component was 15 knots at 90 degrees. The wind was cross at way more than that. In affect I just became a test pilot. I approached in a proper crab and caught the drift. Just before touch down I pulled the wing low into the wind and jammed the rudder to keep her from turning. I touched down on that one wheel tracking straight down the runway. Sweet I got this when a gust of wind hit my tail an the the aircraft pirouetted as pretty as a ballerina, departed the runway heading for trees and the airport fence. I got this I said again and reached and tapped the brake. You idiot that wheel is in the air! What else you got to control this. I had only one option left and that was to add full power. I had to get wind across my rudder. With tree looming the tail swung into the wind and with level wings, all three wheels on the ground, I shut it down. No damage. The thing that flies was now a thing that rolls and in control.

All of this happens in a split second. Time does slow for us as we flip though our mental Rolodex for solutions to the mess we are in. If you are like me, you can’t remember when you learn what you learn but it’s there waiting for you. Your training, experience and familiarity with your machine won’t let you down.ndra or Alaskan Bush tires
 

Cookie

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So if you can reduce the of uneven terrain stress going into the entire craft, that will make backcountry operation better. Larger and softer tires are only part of a landing system. Just as it is in STOL planes.

I only see spring gear. Never any articulating for back country. Apperantly has never been designed due to no marketing requests.
 
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WaspAir

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I only see spring gear. Never any articulating for back country. Apperantly has never been designed due to no marketing requests.
Oleo struts for all three wheels were standard for the certified enclosed gyros of the 60s and 70s.
 

Cookie

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SportCopter uses a suspension system.
I agree! And thank goodness someone does. But when you look into the European models, I haven't seen any two person models with any real suspension! Am I missing anyone?
 
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Cookie

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What would be really cool, is for someone to come with a universal cub suspension that would be adjustable various models. Or a system like Sportscopter has. The standard spring gear works for hard to semi soft with limited backcountry use.

This PHOTO Is a Chinook. Dan from Canada created this and it is am amazing suspension. Chinook-4s-DR1-1.jpg
 

Abid

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The European models like Magni and AG have spring leaf made of composite and it’s a stiff suspension. AR-1 uses 7075 T6 Aluminum leaf similar to KitFox and RANS S21. The turf glide tires at 12 psi add 4” of deflection and Aluminum leaf has a slower rate of return and deflects about 4 inches.
It’s not a true shock absorbers where deflection is absorbed and released as heat but it’s not a spring like Magni or AG either.
SC are polyurethane or rubber sections. That’s really is not a shock absorber either. It’s rate of return is slower. Cubs standard come with bungees. Nothing more than a spring. Aftermarket systems put in real shock absorbers in Cubs and KitFox for more extreme surfaces along with tall 26 to 32 inch Alaskan Bush Wheels. AR-1 turf glide are not Alaskan Bush wheels. They are made to handle grass surfaces not go over big rocks.
 

loftus

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They are made to handle grass surfaces not go over big rocks.
Landing a gyro in rough terrain is one thing. Landing on a dime with minimum forward roll and a still fast spinning rotor is a fairly safe undertaking.
Take off on the other hand is a completely different matter with an essential length of take off roll and a barely fast enough rotor RPM for rigidity during the early phase of takeoff. Whether asphalt, grass, or dirt if there are hidden rocks, holes or undulations your gyro,and possibly the rotor will be heading in different directions from the ones planned irrespective of suspension, tires, or pilot experience. I've seen it happen, twice. An appropriately equipped fixed wing hitting rough patches is not the same as a gyro, with the spinning rotor possibly wanting to go in different directions from the rest of the aircraft. If you can't walk the runway and confirm it's relatively smooth with avoidable large rocks and potholes, don't try it IMHO.
 
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Cookie

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My friends use the as a guide for out west flying. I am not saying yes or no as each landing spot offers challenges. A knowledgeable pilot is usually safer than one that is not.


 

Cookie

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The European models like Magni and AG have spring leaf made of composite and it’s a stiff suspension. AR-1 uses 7075 T6 Aluminum leaf similar to KitFox and RANS S21. The turf glide tires at 12 psi add 4” of deflection and Aluminum leaf has a slower rate of return and deflects about 4 inches.
It’s not a true shock absorbers where deflection is absorbed and released as heat but it’s not a spring like Magni or AG either.
SC are polyurethane or rubber sections. That’s really is not a shock absorber either. It’s rate of return is slower. Cubs standard come with bungees. Nothing more than a spring. Aftermarket systems put in real shock absorbers in Cubs and KitFox for more extreme surfaces along with tall 26 to 32 inch Alaskan Bush Wheels. AR-1 turf glide are not Alaskan Bush wheels. They are made to handle grass surfaces not go over big rocks.
Backcountry flying in a regular planes, pilots avoid rocks too. Simple larger and wider tires will really help as you stated. Small bush wheels could work but just don't fit well in a tricycle setup. Lots of work be involved making that work. Upgraded brakes too!
 

Cookie

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This is where even an anemic jump take off can overcome a host of difficulties by obviating rolling over rocks and crevices.
I wish we had Jump takeoff. It's an amazing process. I wish more gyros had this technology!
 

Abid

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Backcountry flying in a regular planes, pilots avoid rocks too. Simple larger and wider tires will really help as you stated. Small bush wheels could work but just don't fit well in a tricycle setup. Lots of work be involved making that work. Upgraded brakes too!

Well we had to change wheels and brakes. Fortunately, I was able to use something that my old company uses in a trike they produce called Revolt. The main problem was the wait and shortages of everything due to Covid. The tires were not available for 4 months. The wheels were available either. It’s a strange time. Anyway we were able to finally get these items and adjust our axles and wheelpants for it. It is finally getting into production
 

Cookie

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Well we had to change wheels and brakes. Fortunately, I was able to use something that my old company uses in a trike they produce called Revolt. The main problem was the wait and shortages of everything due to Covid. The tires were not available for 4 months. The wheels were available either. It’s a strange time. Anyway we were able to finally get these items and adjust our axles and wheelpants for it. It is finally getting into production
What size tire and rim did you decide on? Did you changed the front also? Any photos???
 
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