Self training

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
16,759
Location
Nipomo,California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2400+ in rotorcraft
It is nice to see that gyroplane pilots are not the only ones who feel training on the internet is sufficient to learn to pilot an aircraft.

The Quad City Challenger II he destroyed is a 460 pound two place airplane.

Below is an excerpt from the accident report:

“Mr. Scott had purchased the aircraft about a week and a half before the accident flight. This was his first flight. He had no previous flight time nor had he received any instruction. He was not aware that a pilot certificate was required to fly the aircraft. He had some familiarization with flying from the internet. Mr. Scott reported that he had only intended to taxi the airplane; however a gust of wind caused it to become airborne. He ultimately flew for about twenty five minutes to get the hang of things. He attempted to land but was unable because the turbulence would grab the airplane and throw it around. After his final landing attempt he again decided to go around due to turbulence. He thought the aircraft had cleared the trees near the flight path; however, the airplane was overcome with the turbulence which resulted in it striking a tree.”
 

Attachments

  • QuadCityChallengerIIC.jpg
    QuadCityChallengerIIC.jpg
    20 KB · Views: 17
  • quad city challenger II.jpg
    quad city challenger II.jpg
    49.9 KB · Views: 18

lindandavid

Newbie
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
88
Location
Alto, NM
Aircraft
RAF2000
Total Flight Time
8000+
It is nice to see that gyroplane pilots are not the only ones who feel training on the internet is sufficient to learn to pilot an aircraft.

The Quad City Challenger II he destroyed is a 460 pound two place airplane.

Below is an excerpt from the accident report:

“Mr. Scott had purchased the aircraft about a week and a half before the accident flight. This was his first flight. He had no previous flight time nor had he received any instruction. He was not aware that a pilot certificate was required to fly the aircraft. He had some familiarization with flying from the internet. Mr. Scott reported that he had only intended to taxi the airplane; however a gust of wind caused it to become airborne. He ultimately flew for about twenty five minutes to get the hang of things. He attempted to land but was unable because the turbulence would grab the airplane and throw it around. After his final landing attempt he again decided to go around due to turbulence. He thought the aircraft had cleared the trees near the flight path; however, the airplane was overcome with the turbulence which resulted in it striking a tree.”
Oops. Vance, I think he should have done a lot of Googling about the requirements to be a pilot. Hard to believe someone he knew didn't discourage him from doing this or maybe someone did but he didn't listen.
 

fara

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Messages
3,845
Location
Tampa, FL
Aircraft
AR-1
Total Flight Time
4000+ 380 gyroplanes. Sport CFI Gyro and Trikes
Sure I believe everything he said. He is very lucky to be alive. Should learn a serious lesson from this.
 

Martin W.

Active Member
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
323
Location
Winnipeg
I hooked up the positive polarity to my brain and thought .... this guy is amazing ... he flew for 25 minutes and completed several succesful go-arounds .

Find me anyone else who could do that without any training or experience.
 

DavePA11

Active Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
949
Location
USA
I had the exact same issue taxing a Phantom down a grass runway, and up in the air I went. Controls were so sensitive decided to go fly it around until I got the hang of it. I was lucky it flew just like my Piper Cub so landed find.

Don’t taxi the length of the runway too fast. Looked something like this Phantom ultralight. Many Ultralight accidents happen by unexpected take offs and then trying to land again on the runway. Usually gets up a few feet then crashes into the ground...


PhantomX1.JPG
 

Martin W.

Active Member
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
323
Location
Winnipeg
Vance didn't give a link to the accident investigation so I tried to look it up .... but the NTSB site is a complete disaster since they changed everything. Somebody should do a disaster report on them.

What I wanted to see was how windy it actually was the day of the mishap.

Here is why ... I did come across an earlier fatal in a Quad City Challenger in Ontario ... two highly experienced pilots had made several attempts to land but the wind and turbulence buffeted them so bad they gave up after several attempts .

Then while heading to an alternate airport a wing strut on one of the machines failed and it went down in a small lake. Investigation showed overload damage on the strut mount which was attributed to the high amount of buffeting during first landing attempts.

Sounds like those aircraft can be squirrely in windy conditions , which is pretty much what Mr Scott claimed in his report. This does not excuse his flight without training , but chances are he may have otherwise landed safely .
 

fara

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Messages
3,845
Location
Tampa, FL
Aircraft
AR-1
Total Flight Time
4000+ 380 gyroplanes. Sport CFI Gyro and Trikes
Vance didn't give a link to the accident investigation so I tried to look it up .... but the NTSB site is a complete disaster since they changed everything. Somebody should do a disaster report on them.

What I wanted to see was how windy it actually was the day of the mishap.

Here is why ... I did come across an earlier fatal in a Quad City Challenger in Ontario ... two highly experienced pilots had made several attempts to land but the wind and turbulence buffeted them so bad they gave up after several attempts .

Then while heading to an alternate airport a wing strut on one of the machines failed and it went down in a small lake. Investigation showed overload damage on the strut mount which was attributed to the high amount of buffeting during first landing attempts.

Sounds like those aircraft can be squirrely in windy conditions , which is pretty much what Mr Scott claimed in his report. This does not excuse his flight without training , but chances are he may have otherwise landed safely .

Highly experienced in what. Having experience in flying a Bonanza means didly in flying an ultralight. Challengers are not new. They fly like many ultralight fixed wings flew. They all have low wing loading and they all get rocked with thermals and wind compared to something heavy. Doesn't mean anything is wrong. Just means the person flying it needs to train for them for lighter wing loading. 100's of them are flying around.
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
16,759
Location
Nipomo,California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2400+ in rotorcraft
Vance didn't give a link to the accident investigation so I tried to look it up .... but the NTSB site is a complete disaster since they changed everything. Somebody should do a disaster report on them.

What I wanted to see was how windy it actually was the day of the mishap.

Here is why ... I did come across an earlier fatal in a Quad City Challenger in Ontario ... two highly experienced pilots had made several attempts to land but the wind and turbulence buffeted them so bad they gave up after several attempts .

Then while heading to an alternate airport a wing strut on one of the machines failed and it went down in a small lake. Investigation showed overload damage on the strut mount which was attributed to the high amount of buffeting during first landing attempts.

Sounds like those aircraft can be squirrely in windy conditions , which is pretty much what Mr Scott claimed in his report. This does not excuse his flight without training , but chances are he may have otherwise landed safely .
Wind was 129 degrees at 4kts measured 21 nautical miles away.

This was over private property so no local weather.

There were no injuries.

I found the accident on Katherine’s report.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2021/02/collision-during-takeofflanding-quad.html

I found it interesting because several times I have seen people write that only gyroplane people are stupid enough to self train.
 

Doug Riley

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
6,583
"I only intended to taxi, not to become airborne" could be a standard epitaph for pilots' tombstones.

An enterprising gravestone-cutter might be able to crank them out in bulk and inventory them, creating some economies of scale.
 

schmoe90

Magni M-16 Sport Pilot
Joined
Feb 8, 2018
Messages
118
Location
Roseville, CA
Aircraft
Magni M-16
When I bought my Magni, I put my old Flightstar II in as part of the purchase price (I didn't want to deal with owning two aircraft at a time), and that eventually got sold to a third party. So, the guy I'd sold my Flightstar to asked me to do the demo flight for the prospective buyer, and I let him take the controls for a bit - I spent a lot of time saying "nose down, wings level."

He bought it, and I suggested we deliver it to his airport, about 20 miles away. We accomplished this without any drama, but the buyer asked me to come and help him with some differences training from his previous aircraft - a Phantom (I think it was) he'd owned many years before.

I'm not an instructor, but I said I'd show him how it flew, and after our first go at low hops on the 6000' runway only got one landing in (I'd been expecting three) I asked him what kind of license he had. He didn't have a license, and thought he could fly a two seat, N numbered, light sport aircraft without one.

I knew he'd flown before, but I didn't realise he didn't have a license, so I hooked him up with an instructor who got him to the point where he could solo.

I think a lot of this is a throwback to the fat ultralights, and the ultralight instructor exemption of the last millennium :(
 

Martin W.

Active Member
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
323
Location
Winnipeg
Highly experienced in what. Having experience in flying a Bonanza means didly in flying an ultralight. Challengers are not new. They fly like many ultralight fixed wings flew. They all have low wing loading and they all get rocked with thermals and wind compared to something heavy. Doesn't mean anything is wrong. Just means the person flying it needs to train for them for lighter wing loading. 100's of them are flying around.

Both were commercial pilots and had lots of time in type .... as compared to the other pilot who had zero experience ... that was my point . Hope you grasp it now.
 

fara

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Messages
3,845
Location
Tampa, FL
Aircraft
AR-1
Total Flight Time
4000+ 380 gyroplanes. Sport CFI Gyro and Trikes
Both were commercial pilots and had lots of time in type .... as compared to the other pilot who had zero experience ... that was my point . Hope you grasp it now.
Yeah but that turbulence did not break that bracket in that time. That bracket was in bad shape well before that and on its last legs more than likely.
 

Tyger

Super Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
1,138
Location
Germantown, NY
Aircraft
Magni M16
Total Flight Time
420
I hooked up the positive polarity to my brain and thought .... this guy is amazing ... he flew for 25 minutes and completed several succesful go-arounds .

Find me anyone else who could do that without any training or experience.
Ha, but the landing is the most important part of the flight, now, isn't it? It's where the rubber hits the road (or the airplane hits the ground).
 

Martin W.

Active Member
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
323
Location
Winnipeg
.

Its sure a good thing that no gyro pilots have never botched up a landing.
Can you imagine the outcry ??
It would be like the Hair-Splitting section of a Nit-Pickers convention

.
 
Top