Safety/Horizontal Stabilizer

[GyroRon]

No the guy I bought it from put that on there. I just took it off to paint it and make it look pretty!

 

[imstu]

Hi Ron

Hi Ron

Hi Ron. Were the stop sign parts the red part or the black extensions? Any idea how much area I need? (square feet) I'm not sure how big to make it.

 

[imstu]

Thanx Doug

Thanx Doug

Thank you for the info Doug. I kinda thought the effect would be minimal. I just don't want to create any problems. I figure I'll have my hands full learning to fly without making extra problems for myself. I can't wait to get to the point of soloing my own machine! Hopefully it won't be
I posted more pics (mostly the blue 1984) under the heading "Please help with my Gyro" I'm a little concerned about the way the blades attach. Only 3 bolts thru the hub bar. The straps are about 1/8 inch aluminum straps. I don't know what brand of hub that is. The other gyro has a Benson hub/bar and the blades bolt right to it. I weigh about 245-250. Should I try to increase the disc size with a longer hub bar or will this one be ok? Thanks again!

 

[Doug Riley]

Stu -- Be sure to spell Bensen with 2 e's and no "o."

I'll assume that the photo that shows a hub bar with pitch-adjusting blocks inboard of a section that takes 3 vertical bolts is the one you mean. IOW, it's similar to a regular Bensen hub, except that, instead of the blades' plugging directly into the set of blocks containing four 3/8" horizontal bolts, a short section of hub bar plugs into this block assembly and then the blades attach to it via vertical bots through straps.

If so, the blades are probably Rotordyne. The straps are unlikely to be aluminum; more likely 1/8" or 3/16" steel with silvery plating. Check 'em with a magnet. If they really are 1/8" aluminum, the straps are inadequate and you have to wonder about the rest of the rotor assembly.

In fact, maybe you do anyway. Rotordyne has had at least four owners. The original owners, Bud and Steve Phaneuf, did good work. They sold to a fellow (Lazslo?) who did NOT do good work, and his blades got a bad rep for de-laminating. He was apparently skipping some steps in the glueing process. You can't do that when glueing metal.

Tracy Hansen was the next owner. He brought one of the Phaneufs back to re-establish the correct bonding process. This was in the mid-90's. His blades were good.

The Bandit gyro company got the product next and they seem to have sunk out of sight.

If your blades are Rotordynes and were bought in the early 80's, they may be from the "bad" period.

 

[Timchick]

I am adding the single-place Air Command H-stab pieces to my tail. They will fit perfectly across the top of my tail and that will also get it up into the propwash.

 

[spaceman spiff]

When you get up to San Manuel, check out the modified Bensens they have there. Both have extended keels (extra leverage) and very large keel mounted stabs on them. I was asking charlie about them he says the one he has flown is rock solid. Few would argue that there is such thing as too much stability.

 

[Timchick]

Any photos spaceman?

 

[spaceman spiff]

Here's one. (has been finished since this pick was taken) Thats Ben working on it.

 

[Timchick]

Do you know how far back the tail was extended?

 

[spaceman spiff]

He told me a while back but i don't remember. With a bit of luck i can get some time in this weekend and find out. Pretty sure he wouldn't mind if i posted some measurements on the HS as well.

 

[darrellwittke]

Air Command h-stabs...

Air Command h-stabs...

Seem like a good answer to the beating Arizona sun. Sorry about the misunderstanding of the pictures, Timchick. When I re-read it just now, your meaning was obvious. The winglets and h-stab from air command mounted the way you are talking seem like a very good idea, resistant to sun, effective aerodynamics, and very stylish and different. Of course they are a little expensive, probaly, to doing it yourself but heck, even I would pay the little bit extra for the professional quality.

Speaking of quality, I have to get that crack fixed on mine. It has wood spars so the structural integrity is intact, just the fiberglass cracked. You have seen the fiberglass repair kit at my place John, unfortunately you seen the encumbrances I have to work with also! lol. (John visited when my little girl was having her 8th birthday party.)

Sorry to hear little wing doesn't manufacture tail/stabs anymore.

Back to Art Evan's design, I looked at my keel tube and rocked it back and forth, up and down, stepped on it and jumped a little on it, looking for deflection. I have had a couple hard landings where I flared high and hard, stabbing the keel downward to the ground, no damage, bending, etc...

Therefore, I question whether the aforesaid statement "the bensen keel is questionable as to strength to handle an Art Evan's tail" is accurate. It is by my best guess, but that is far removed from calculated engineering. Any answers Doug R.?

(I seem to remember the problem with Art Evan's tail was triangulating to the end of the h-stab to prevent over torsioning? I'm sure this was talked about, with Chuck B. setting things straight, I'll do some searching...)

 

[Cobra Doc]

Stu;
Maybe we need to hook-up soon. I've been playing around with some different expoxies, foams and substrate materials. I found some combinations that don't shatter like fiberglass (or carbon fiber), are somewhat flexible and, of major importance to us desert rats, UV resistant.

 

[jlrelp]

Benson

Benson

Hi

I am also talking lessons from Charlie. He is goood.

I have the plans for the 3DRV gyroplane is is tall tail center line thrust. also there is the sparrow and falcon from Roto Hawk he also drop keel conversion kit to change any benson style tnto drop keel center-line thrust machine. The only problem he does not have an web site. if you like more infor i can see you his hand out.

 

[darrellwittke]

Increase the moment arm!

Increase the moment arm!

The above is a thread started by Dean Dolph wherein the subject (and picture) of Art Evan's tail is discussed. Doug Riley states (or confirms, kinda) what I thought. The 2x2 keel is adequate for some time when using this type extended keel.

A very close watch should be maintained on it certainly but with the average gyro pilot below 50 hours a year, certainly it would be good for a couple years. Or not, I was going to say if it does fall off in flight no big deal but then I remembered the flying cables would keep it attached to the flying gyrocopter. Probaly not to be flying much longer though.

An engineering analysis would be most appropriate in using this design, I guess.

Again, you can look and read for yourself using the search function for Increase the moment arm! thread. Best regards,

 

[Rehan K.Janjua]

The picture with the red tail is one of my old gyros, the horizontal stab is a Stop Sign - seriously - chopped up into winglets that bolt to the tail. Easy to make and very cheap!

Hello Ron.

Thanks for the inside info. Great NEWS. Now I can get gyro parts locally.

Its quite tough to get Aircraft parts imported from the factory.(paper work)
permits, Airworthiness, Engineering change orders etc No Exemptions for ULs.
I have the A/C 582 HTL 1999 year kit with H/S all the options and upgrades offered till then.
I need larger H/S, on the keel and want to keep the old small rudder.

Any suggestion-s are welcome and appreciated.

Best wishes and Thank You

Rehan Janjua
Air Command Pakistan

 

[imstu]

Wow!

Wow!

WOW! So much good info!! I've been away from the computer for a couple of days so I was glad to get back on here and see all the replies. I'm trying to get out to San Manuel this weekend to see the gyros there and hook up with Charlie. This damn day job is starting to interfere with my LIFE!! But it does help pay for my addictions like food, shelter, clothing etc...
I went out to the garage yesterday and moved the gyros out so I could get to my Scorpion. I have to take pics of it so I can sell it. My garage isn't tall enough to keep it in without removing the mast and hangars are too expensive here. I'd much rather stick with the gyros. My older boy had some friends over and they loved getting some 'stick time' out on the driveway. "C'mon, it's my turn to fly!!" Future pilots?
It looks like I've got some more reading to do on the threads suggested.
Any more suggestions?
Thanks again, Guys!

 

[Dean_Dolph]

Art Evans Horz Stab

Art Evans Horz Stab

Okay, I finally came across the picture of Art Evans horz stab.

I couldn't find it in my pix albums but knew I had it on my computer. I couldn't find it until I downloaded Google's Picasa2. Neat program for locating pictures on the computer.

 

[Udi]

Not sure I like the mechanical support of this specific stab but, from a stability point of view, this is THE BEST location for a stab in the pusher configuration.

Udi

 

[John Stahl]

Dean
That is the type of tail I am planning to put on the Gyro I’m currently building. I want to know how the tail flies for Art?

Darrell
On your tail, on the tail boom there is some hardware what is it for? I believe it is for tail flutter dampening, could you get me some plans for it.

 

[Dean_Dolph]

Yeah, this is the extreme mounting situation that Doug R. has been warning everyone about.

It would help if you engineering types would identify what the strength limits of the standard 2 inch size keel are. If the ultimate load limit for keel tension/compression and torsion could be identified then the non-engineering backyard designers could play around within those limits. I'm not sure how this would be done since a standard datum point for the length would need to be identified. Then, of course, there would be the horz stab size to deal with. Hey, I know you guys enjoy a challenge and here is one!