Safest side by side Gyro in the world? M24 vs Cavalon

[RogerB]

Tercel design and the argon , what’s the difference?

Steve it was 2010r - after Trendak - Celier split Kris Wronowski created with Celier - Celier Aviation sp z oo and developed new model XENON IV.
From 2016 Wronowski continue XENON production (take over copyrights of Xenon by National Court decision) but change company name from Celier Aviation to ARGO AERO (both of those companies belongs to Kris Wronowski)
From 2018 Wronowski created Manufaktura Lotnicza Sp z o o company who hold all copyrights for all XENON models and new developed ARGONs Gyro and ARGO Helicopters as well.

This is exactly what I mean … confusing , 2 companies making the same models basically both claiming to be totally legit. Why not just have one manufacturer for the model ranges that are pretty much the same - from a marketing perspective this is shooting yourselves in the foot.

 

[ARGON Producer]

Tercel design and the argon , what’s the difference?

This is exactly what I mean … confusing , 2 companies making the same models basically both claiming to be totally legit. Why not just have one manufacturer for the model ranges that are pretty much the same - from a marketing perspective this is shooting yourselves in the foot.

What are you talking about?
All is different, for 15 years these two companies have been different in everything, idea, vision, models, engines, design, quality and appearance. The only thing they have in common is a common ancestor, looking at the market it is Boeing that is more similar to Airbus than Tajfun to ARGON GTL, will you therefore appeal that you feel confused and one of these companies should take over the production of the other?

 

[ARGON Producer]

The ARGON GTL 916

 

[Greg Vos]

That's not true - after significant R&D and testing, Magni just came out with a new gyro model and some major modifications to existing models.

Sir take it from me there are rumblings at HO ..

 

[RogerB]

Trendak Zen 1

Trendak

Argon



They don’t look very similar in design?

 

[Aerofoam]

Trendak Zen 1
View attachment 1162455
Trendak
View attachment 1162458
Argon
View attachment 1162456


They don’t look very similar in design?

Very similar, but the fuselage molds are slightly different.

 

[PJB]

What are you talking about?
All is different, for 15 years these two companies have been different in everything, idea, vision, models, engines, design, quality and appearance. The only thing they have in common is a common ancestor, looking at the market it is Boeing that is more similar to Airbus than Tajfun to ARGON GTL, will you therefore appeal that you feel confused and one of these companies should take over the production of the other?

I think the point being made is that in order to understand things you need to dig around and when you do that and find commercial splits, court cases and a bunch of aircraft that look the same but under different brands, some of which subsequently go out of business for the customer it starts to go into the "too difficult to do" box. With all that said the aircraft does look very nice and it would be nice to see how it flies. Pity they are unlikely to come to the UK anytime soon.

 

[ARGON Producer]

Pity they are unlikely to come to the UK anytime soon.

I think you may soon be surprised in this case

 

[ARGON Producer]

Very similar, but the fuselage molds are slightly different.

Don’t be ignorant, please read about differences:

Safety EN

Safety futures of ARGON Gyrocopters

argo.aero

All aeroplanes looks very similar Cesssna, Tecnam almost looks the same

 

[PJB]

I think you may soon be surprised in this case

if by that you mean something coming to the UK in 2025 then yes I would be very surprised.

 

[Mike G]

Don’t be ignorant, please read about differences:

Safety EN

Safety futures of ARGON Gyrocopters

argo.aero

All aeroplanes looks very similar Cesssna, Tecnam almost looks the same

I've always liked the layout of the various Zénon variants and found them very comfortable when I tracked & balanced them.
However in your safety list there are two missing items.
1) A fire/leak resistant fuel tank, see work done by Luca Vanzin now included in Claudio Pogatto gyros
And
2) A GWS (now available in Silverlight & Claudio Pogatto gyros), much better to prevent having an accident in the first place than needing to use all your safety features after the accident.
Mike

 

[Aerofoam]

Don’t be ignorant, please read about differences:

Safety EN

Safety futures of ARGON Gyrocopters

argo.aero

All aeroplanes looks very similar Cesssna, Tecnam almost looks the same

I was only commenting on the fuselages, which are close enough to simply be different versions, but definitely not the same mold.
I do composites and notice the small design differences.
You would do well to very publicly state the genesis and differences because the "Public" is definitely confused.
I was not making a positive, or negative comment on the product. I think it looks good and a very practical shape for cabin enclosure.
Your marketing dialog could use further proof reading and editing by someone with better English technical writing skills, but the main concept is coming across. I hope we see more of these in the US.....

 

[IgnacioParodi]

That's not true - after significant R&D and testing, Magni just came out with a new gyro model and some major modifications to existing models.

Can you specify what those modifications are?

 

[Steve_UK]

I think the point being made is that in order to understand things you need to dig around and when you do that and find commercial splits, court cases and a bunch of aircraft that look the same but under different brands, some of which subsequently go out of business for the customer it starts to go into the "too difficult to do" box. With all that said the aircraft does look very nice and it would be nice to see how it flies. Pity they are unlikely to come to the UK anytime soon.

There is already a Trendak Tercel here in the UK - G-CMTC registered in July 2023

 

[PJB]

There is already a Trendak Tercel here in the UK - G-CMTC registered in July 2023

Yep registered July 2023. Permitted in Nov 2024? How many hours has it flown? No I'll be surprised if Average Joe can go and buy and fly a Tercel in the UK in 2025. But happy to be surprised.

 

[PJB]

This is the bit in GINFO that will be the acid test
CofA / Permit to Fly
Permit Validity Expiry:10-Apr-2025 [or some other date]

 

[Steve_UK]

I guess it's in the same no mans land as the Arrowcopter G-SKNY found itself, as will any other type of gyro that is non UK CAA type approved ( currently only Cavalon, Calidus, MTO, M16, M22 and M24 ).

 

[PJB]

Exactly that I suspect and the VPM before that and I can't see that becoming any easier with the latest safety recommendations from the AAIB.

 

[Greg Vos]

I guess it's in the same no mans land as the Arrowcopter G-SKNY found itself, as will any other type of gyro that is non UK CAA type approved ( currently only Cavalon, Calidus, MTO, M16, M22 and M24 ).

How boring …although in the 16 you can have some fun if you know what you’re doing …

 

[Steve_UK]

Hi Greg, there are also some older legacy types still active Cricket, RAF2000 etc etc