Safest side by side Gyro in the world? M24 vs Cavalon

[cmkwood]

Comment about what Corey? The Xtreme has a 140 HP engine also.

I am just saying that wind is not needed for "good enough" stol performance. Full disclaimer I would not takeoff and land like that without lots of training.

 

[Abid]

I am just saying that wind is not needed for "good enough" stol performance. Full disclaimer I would not takeoff and land like that without lots of training.

Oh ok.
Gyroplanes in general are not that short takeoff relative to other ultralights on average. I test flew a trike the other day powered by 912ULS with a blade double surface wing that cruised at 90 mph burning 3.5 gph. With just me in it and half tank of fuel in no wind it broke ground in 60 feet with no special tricks or technique and climbed at 1400 FPM. But I sure felt every thermal and bump and my shoulders ached after the flight.
The Recon airplane I designed takes off in under150 feet ground roll one up with a 912ULS without much issue

 

[Greg Vos]

If I may ask who said the Magni and Cavalon are the safest side by side? Magni is the smallest inside for sure, The Cavalon is the premium finish of the two….but safest ?
AG have a huge marketing spin for sure …yet their Test Pilot is only rated on AG products, so we can’t take him to seriously? Magni are in trouble at a head office level so that means to me they cant invest in R&D ….if I can suggest look a little further than those two brands, I did over 800 Hours in M16 and back in the day I would have said Magni was the best.
Magni has a good resale value ..IMO that is one of its better hallmarks but that’s it

 

[Greg Vos]

If you really wish to spoil yourself have this with a 916.

 

[IgnacioParodi]

I agree they don't invest in development, but it's like comparing an old trustable lycoming to a new rotax. Most pilots choose the first (for planes)
The xenons lost me, why choose the Argon and not the rest? what's their safety record? how do they fly compared to the other 2?

 

[ARGON Producer]

Thank you Greg
ARGON GTL is the only side-by-side ever to have flown in a crew of two plus baggage over the Atlantic Ocean 16,000 kilometers "upstream," that is, from Europe to America.
I would consider this a sufficient "safety factor".

FlyTheNorth

argo.aero

Fly the North

 

[IgnacioParodi]

I am interested in a rugged gyro with a heavy duty landing gear like the magni extreme.
Why does Argon stand out over the other 5 or 6 companies who make the same model? how many units sold?
its hard to find one in Australia
I won't lie it looks awesome and the xenon has been around for many years...but I would rather go with the mainstream model

 

[ARGON Producer]

I am interested in a rugged gyro with a heavy duty landing gear like the magni extreme.
Why does Argon stand out over the other 5 or 6 companies who make the same model? how many units sold?
its hard to find one in Australia
I won't lie it looks awesome and the xenon has been around for many years...but I would rather go with the mainstream model

Argon has undergone all tests in accordance with the strict certification requirements of the German DAeC.
You have information about how many how many units have been sold and how many hours all ARGON have flown on the front page of our website http://www.argo.aero
None have fallen or had an accident or incident

 

[ARGON Producer]

Why does Argon stand out over the other 5 or 6 companies who make the same model?

I must emphatically deny this claim, ONLY Manufactura Lotnicza produces ARGON model and ARGON GTL covered by Type Certificate in Poland, France, Germany and Turkey. Krzysztof Wronowski - owner of the ARGON brand and chief designer, instructor pilot was previously a partner and co-creator of XENON models. ARGO AERO is also owned by Krzysztof Wronowski, as is Rotor-Tech. No one else manufactures ARGON models.
Some companies tried to produce Gyro's similar in appearance but they no longer exist (FlyArgo went bankrupt, AirGyro sold products of Manufaktura Lotnicza under his stickers) These companies no longer exist.

 

[Greg Vos]

I agree they don't invest in development, but it's like comparing an old trustable lycoming to a new rotax. Most pilots choose the first (for planes)
The xenons lost me, why choose the Argon and not the rest? what's their safety record? how do they fly compared to the other 2?

I have put a xenon in places I would not go near with MTO …The new Argon is light years ahead of AG

 

[Greg Vos]

Thank you Greg
ARGON GTL is the only side-by-side ever to have flown in a crew of two plus baggage over the Atlantic Ocean 16,000 kilometers "upstream," that is, from Europe to America.
I would consider this a sufficient "safety factor".

FlyTheNorth

argo.aero

Fly the North

This is impressive!

 

[Greg Vos]

I am interested in a rugged gyro with a heavy duty landing gear like the magni extreme.
Why does Argon stand out over the other 5 or 6 companies who make the same model? how many units sold?
its hard to find one in Australia
I won't lie it looks awesome and the xenon has been around for many years...but I would rather go with the mainstream model

Do yourself a favour go to Poland and fly it, look at how it’s constructed then decide. This is a big ticket item IMO the trip there is a fraction of the cost of you purchase the wrong aircraft.
I have people, who have flown from the UK to Cape Town to fly this side by side, people who own a Cavalon, guys locally fly from all over South Africa to to fly in it, I have had guys come fly it who own a M24 and they are impressed with our 12 year old version, it’s regrettable the previous owners ( like flyargo ) have damaged a great machines reputation
As far as I know we are also the only company who have mounted and fired twin 7.62mm guns from Xenon, so if you’re looking for robust it’s worth some investigation.

 

[ARGON Producer]

As far as I know we are also the only company who have mounted and fired twin 7.62mm guns from Xenon, so if you’re looking for robust it’s worth some investigation.

 

[Abid]

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Is this stretcher version flown anywhere in the field and actually logged 100 hours or is it just at the manufacturer? Just curious.

 

[ARGON Producer]

Is this stretcher version flown anywhere in the field and actually logged 100 hours or is it just at the manufacturer? Just curious.

The couple of MedeVac was build for test for Spanish Army

 

[AgentCheese]

If I may ask who said the Magni and Cavalon are the safest side by side? Magni is the smallest inside for sure, The Cavalon is the premium finish of the two….but safest ?
AG have a huge marketing spin for sure …yet their Test Pilot is only rated on AG products, so we can’t take him to seriously? Magni are in trouble at a head office level so that means to me they cant invest in R&D ….if I can suggest look a little further than those two brands, I did over 800 Hours in M16 and back in the day I would have said Magni was the best.
Magni has a good resale value ..IMO that is one of its better hallmarks but that’s it

That's not true - after significant R&D and testing, Magni just came out with a new gyro model and some major modifications to existing models.

 

[RogerB]

One of the main reasons I and probably many others would be hesitant to go near an Argo or a xenon or whatever the producer is called these days is I don’t know who is the main manufacturer , should just be one not several and any that are no longer relevant should be removed from the internet. The other reason is unstable company history. I still don’t know who the producer is/was/will be even after the manufacturer came into the thread and tried to clarify and created a second account which now only further confuses the point.
While AG and Magni may not be as “innovative” they have a proven track record and been the same company the whole time (bankruptcy and taking over the UK company design in the beginning for AG aside).

 

[Steve_UK]

and also Trendak Aviation continue to build the Tercel ( updated Xenon ) and their own enclosed Taifun design.

Trendak have continued production after the split with Celier circa 2012.

More on their website.

Main Page - AVIATION

Gyroplanes of Polish production Aviation Artur Trendak Did you know that… 90% of gyroplanes registered at the Civil Aviation Office in Poland are gyroplanes manufactured by Aviation Artur Trendak Download the AAT catalog Find a dealer Familiarization flights CHOOSE YOUR GYROPLANE NEW GYROPLANES...

trendak.eu

 

[ARGON Producer]

One of the main reasons I and probably many others would be hesitant to go near an Argo or a xenon or whatever the producer is called these days is I don’t know who is the main manufacturer , should just be one not several and any that are no longer relevant should be removed from the internet. The other reason is unstable company history. I still don’t know who the producer is/was/will be even after the manufacturer came into the thread and tried to clarify and created a second account which now only further confuses the point.
While AG and Magni may not be as “innovative” they have a proven track record and been the same company the whole time (bankruptcy and taking over the UK company design in the beginning for AG aside).

Roger, you don't know who the manufacturer of ARGON is because you don't want to know, just type in Google to know that since 2018 the company “Manufaktura Lotnicza” has developed a new model ARGON which is a successor, a new model of XENON (to which it owns all copyrights) and in 2020 has developed a completely new model - ARGON GTL. The company “Manufaktura Lotnicza” is the ONLY manufacturer of ARGON and no other company appoints itself as its manufacturer and the owner is Krzysztof Wronowski, who years ago was a partner in Celier Aviation. This is all thoroughly described on the Internet and easy to find, even on the Manufaktura Lotnicza website https://argo.aero/company.html
Track record is clear if you want to track.

 

[ARGON Producer]

and also Trendak Aviation continue to build the Tercel ( updated Xenon ) and their own enclosed Taifun design.

Trendak have continued production after the split with Celier circa 2012.

Steve it was 2010r - after Trendak - Celier split Kris Wronowski created with Celier - Celier Aviation sp z oo and developed new model XENON IV.
From 2016 Wronowski continue XENON production (take over copyrights of Xenon by National Court decision) but change company name from Celier Aviation to ARGO AERO (both of those companies belongs to Kris Wronowski)
From 2018 Wronowski created Manufaktura Lotnicza Sp z o o company who hold all copyrights for all XENON models and new developed ARGONs Gyro and ARGO Helicopters as well.