Rules and Regs regarding international flight

Hez_Superb

Newbie
Joined
May 7, 2016
Messages
7
Location
Jamaica, NY
Can anybody tell me what the rules are regarding gyros and international flight. I am particularly interested in purchasing a Calidus or ELA Eclipse and flying from the U.S.A. to points in the Caribbean and South America. Any information and guidance will be greatly appreciated. :)
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
16,209
Location
Nipomo,California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2400+ in rotorcraft
Welcome to the Rotary Wing Forum Arthur.

Welcome to the Rotary Wing Forum Arthur.

Can anybody tell me what the rules are regarding gyros and international flight. I am particularly interested in purchasing a Calidus or ELA Eclipse and flying from the U.S.A. to points in the Caribbean and South America. Any information and guidance will be greatly appreciated. :)
A gyroplane is treated the same as a fixed wing aircraft so there are no special rules just for gyroplanes.

You will need a transponder.

For all aircraft see 5-1-9 in the Aeronautical Information Manuel for filing form 7233-4.

It is too long to reprint here and you will need a FAR/AIM as part of getting a private certificate or you can read it on line here:
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/media/aim.pdf

I recommend purchasing a current FAR/AIM as part of your studies and you will need one for your practical test.

If you get a sport pilot certificate you will need prior written permission from the country you are visiting because a sport pilot certificate does not meet the international requirements (ICAO).

As a sport pilot you will also need an endorsement for operating in class B,C or D airspace and you will not be able to fly at night.

I recommend getting a private pilot certificate for what you are planning on doing with your gyroplane.
 
Last edited:

Texasautogyro

Gyro Master Instructor
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
1,752
Location
Tomball Texas
Aircraft
AutoGyro MTO Sport/Cessna 172
Total Flight Time
3800 with over 1900 in gyro
Flying in and out of the USA

Flying in and out of the USA

Can anybody tell me what the rules are regarding gyros and international flight. I am particularly interested in purchasing a Calidus or ELA Eclipse and flying from the U.S.A. to points in the Caribbean and South America. Any information and guidance will be greatly appreciated. :)
I have flown from Alaska down to Texas in a Cessna 172. It requires the aircraft to have a US customs sticker and flight plan filed with them in order to re enter the US. Also Canada had interesting rule regarding experimental US aircraft. I looked it up once and it at the time discouraged me from flying my gyro all the way back. Also the Bahamas had eyebrows raised as well as wanting Tail number letters over 6 inches i think. Its doable but contact each authority of intended landing and find out what they need.

Costa Rica has no problems with gyros but they want a local fee paid for a permit for out of country aircraft along with a proof of current physical no matter what the light sport regs say. I have flown over 100 hours down there.


Also you will cook to death in a Calidus in those places better get a summer canopy or buy and open gyro like a Titanium, MTO or some other model like them.
 
Last edited:

fara

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Messages
3,373
Location
Tampa, FL
Aircraft
AR-1
Total Flight Time
3600+ .. New to gyroplanes
Can anybody tell me what the rules are regarding gyros and international flight. I am particularly interested in purchasing a Calidus or ELA Eclipse and flying from the U.S.A. to points in the Caribbean and South America. Any information and guidance will be greatly appreciated. :)
Hi:
You can send an e-mail to Andreas Zmuda. He just flew from Florida all the way to Brazil and all around South America and the caribbean in a trike as a sport pilot and back to Florida. Now he is headed north to NYC and then to Canada and across the Atlantic to Norway.
His e-mail is [email protected]

All the islands including specially Bahamas accept Sport Pilot license. There in fact is a LSA flight (of multiple aircraft) over to the Bahamas and other islands after Sebring Expo in Florida almost every year.
I would invite you to look at our gyroplane AR1 as well that is made in Florida. We will have a fully enclosed canopy for it as well. In fact have a few orders for the enclosed one already. It can be converted to windshield in less than an hour. The canopy and cabin heat option is $7000.00 The standard gyroplane with 914UL (Turbo) is $75000+ with radio etc. with builder's assist.

For some of the flights you will need longer range tanks than standard tanks. There are legs in South America where you will be over the jungle for a straight 4+ hours and there is nothing there.
 
Last edited:

Kolibri

FW and Gyros
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
1,636
Location
Wyoming
Aircraft
Cessna 152, 172, 172RG, 177, 206 -- Piper 180 -- RV-7A -- Calidus -- RAF2000 -- Sport Copter II and
Total Flight Time
1000+
Aren't U.S. E-AB restricted to U.S. airspace?

Regards, Kolibri
 

PanamaPaul

Newbie
Joined
Feb 27, 2013
Messages
27
Location
Potrerillos, Chiriqui, rep. of Panama
Aircraft
2 trikes,
Total Flight Time
200 +
Hi I live an fly in panama an C/R, you will not have any problems here, Nicaragua, you can only fly transet to Costa Rica, Honduras, Guatemala, I am not sure, but I no other pilots who have flown down from the U.S., you will need to check with embassy of each country, an pre fill flight plans, I have heard of some hold ups at airports in Mex.
There is a agent here that knows the proper way to do it,she has lots of experience with choppers for the tuna boats. Hope this helps
 

Hez_Superb

Newbie
Joined
May 7, 2016
Messages
7
Location
Jamaica, NY
@ Vance Thank you! I am looking forward to training for my private pilot certificate. It is highly inspirational to know that this all possible. As a CFI, could you tell me what machines you use for training? I am interested in instructors who may allow me to train in a Calidus or something similar.

@Texas Autogyro. Thanks for the advice! Just to be clear, to which authorities do you refer? Is that customs? Airport administration? In some cases, I'll just be landing to get gas and go. If you have any experience with that, any additional advice you can give is greatly appreciated.

@Fara Thanks! I will reach out to Mr. Zmuda as I get closer to completing my training. Also, I have looked at the AR-1. It is a very nice machine, however the gas tank is a bit undersized in comparison to the competition. If you have a solution for longer range and perhaps air conditioning could be items that give your product a competitive edge.

@ Panama Paul Thank you. I look forward to one day flying through South and Central America. Good to know that this is all very possible. I would very much like to get in contact with anyone with experience flying in the region as I get closer to completing my pilot training. I am a complete novice looking forward to beginning sometime after September of this year.
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
16,209
Location
Nipomo,California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2400+ in rotorcraft
@ Vance Thank you! I am looking forward to training for my private pilot certificate. It is highly inspirational to know that this all possible. As a CFI, could you tell me what machines you use for training? I am interested in instructors who may allow me to train in a Calidus or something similar.
I train in a one of a kind two place tandem powered by a Lycoming IO-320 called the Predator or I can train in the customer’s aircraft.

I have experience flying most of the two place gyroplanes including a Calidus.

Training in your own aircraft will save a lot of money Arthur.

The more you know when you begin your training the less time (money) your instructor will have to spend with you.

I recommend Tim’s ground school in the banner ad on this forum even though it is aimed at Sport Pilot.

I am training a couple of students now who recently took Tim’s course and it was very helpful. One is aiming for Private Pilot, Rotorcraft, Gyroplane.

Learning to manipulate the controls is actually a small part of learning how to fly a gyroplane safely.

I recommend you take a couple of lessons to make sure flying a gyroplane is what you want and then make a real commitment to the adventure. Some people waste a lot of time sort of dabbling.

Learning to fly a gyroplane takes a big commitment and in my opinion the returns are proportionately rewarding.
 

Attachments

fara

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Messages
3,373
Location
Tampa, FL
Aircraft
AR-1
Total Flight Time
3600+ .. New to gyroplanes
The gas tanks on AR1 have 16.8 gallons useable. I don't think that out of the competition range but if you are serious we can certainly design long range tanks for your mission and secure them so the whole system works for a reasonable fee. The gas tanks in some of the competition if my info is correct are composite using supposedly alcohol resistant resin. Meaning a strand of vinyl ester. I can tell you that we used that on our trikes and airplanes for years and eventually gave up on composite fuel tanks. Different formulations of seasonal fuel in the US in different areas started delaminating those tanks. All i know is you are not going to delaminate Aluminum and it can handle 100% ethanol even. It costs many hundreds more to make Aluminum tanks but we have stuck with them
Its not theory. I have personally seen fuel dripping out of some of the competition composite tanks right here in the US. Its a pain to avoid ethanol based fuel here and 10 or 20% ethanol does not affect our fuel system even a bit.

About air conditioning. No sorry; that's not in the plans and it won't be efficient nor needed much after takeoff. Perhaps once you get to fly gyroplanes and LSA long enough you may have a different perspective on this. There are some portable light aircraft AC units you can buy but even they are cumbersome and unyielding.
 
Last edited:

Hez_Superb

Newbie
Joined
May 7, 2016
Messages
7
Location
Jamaica, NY
@ Vance I am prepared to fully commit to becoming a gyroplane pilot. I have been interested in the technology since I was a kid reading Popular Mechanics magazines. I certainly understand the cost savings as far as training in a machine I own, but I don't know that I'll go that route. As a complete novice I would like to try a variety of machines before I make a decision to purchase and I imagine I will have done so as I get closer to completing my training. I also understand that it could take up to 4 months to receive your gyro depending on the company and up to another month to build it (per 51% rules). Hopefully I will have completed my private pilot's training by that time. We'll see. However I will keep you in mind as a potential instructor.

@Fara That's too bad about the a/c. I have no experience flying anything and have no idea what temperatures inside the canopy will feel like in the dead of summer. I've been advised by one forum member that I'll cook in the canopy and you say it will be a non-issue at altitude. We'll see! I've researched a 21 lb. unit from a company called Corbi Air and a 41 lb unit from a company called Flight Line. If it is at all necessary and possible, perhaps we can talk about a one-off custom build for me? About the fuel tanks, I would much prefer an aluminum tank, but at 16.8 gallons I feel it's slightly undersized, especially for what I plan to do with my machine. The ELA Eclipse claims a 26 gallon tank. How much of that 26 gallons is actually usable, I do not know. Others like the Calidus and Arrow Copter are in that 17-19 gallon range which in truth makes your machine competitive, however I wouldn't mind a few extra gallons just to be sure. I will certainly keep the AR-1 in mind as I get closer to deciding.
 

Steve_UK

Active Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
3,671
Location
UK
Aircraft
I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA
simple stick an extra fuel tank in the rear seat - seen plenty of Magni and Autogyros with these for long flights
 

Attachments

Steve_UK

Active Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
3,671
Location
UK
Aircraft
I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA
135 litres - will that do ?


"With our long range fuel tank set up we had 135 litres usable on board which gave us about 8 hours endurance. Depending on wind, we could cover anything up to 900 km. The longest leg trough the Great Victoria Desert was about 700 km. but I expected tailwind, so it should be very safe, I thought.."


more here

http://autogyro-australia.com/49/around-oz-1/
 

Mr Beveridge

Newbie
Joined
Mar 14, 2016
Messages
60
Location
London, England
A private pilot's licence is internationally recognised, other lesser papers may not be. Your PPL will have your medical certificate inside it (and your radio (user) licence.

Over water you will need some good nav skills and maybe good nav equipment that you can use.
 

Steve_UK

Active Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
3,671
Location
UK
Aircraft
I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA
shark repellant too
 

All_In

Gold Supporter
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
14,794
Location
San Diego, CA. USA
Aircraft
Piper Archer, Aviomania G1sb
Total Flight Time
Not sure over 10,000+ logged FW, 260+ ultralights, sailplane, hang-gliders
@ Vance ... As a complete novice I would like to try a variety of machines before I make a decision to purchase and I imagine I will have done so as I get closer to completing my training. ...
Hi Arthur
That is a good idea! Come to PRA's Fly-in Convention July 19-23 2016 at Mentone In.
You then can book flight instruction or a demo flight in most of the gyroplanes you are considering and also sit in and see just about all models.
Here is a link to pre-register http://www.pra.org/Convention15.aspx?i=28

...

@Fara That's too bad about the a/c. I have no experience flying anything and have no idea what temperatures inside the canopy will feel like in the dead of summer. I've been advised by one forum member that I'll cook in the canopy and you say it will be a non-issue at altitude.
The AR1 Fara/Abid builds is a convertible and you can either install the enclosed canopy or the front wind screen making it open cockpit.

... About the fuel tanks, I would much prefer an aluminum tank, but at 16.8 gallons I feel it's slightly undersized, especially for what I plan to do with my machine. The ELA Eclipse claims a 26 gallon tank. How much of that 26 gallons is actually usable, I do not know. Others like the Calidus and Arrow Copter are in that 17-19 gallon range which in truth makes your machine competitive, however I wouldn't mind a few extra gallons just to be sure. I will certainly keep the AR-1 in mind as I get closer to deciding.
In an aircraft there are major advantages in having removable fuel tanks/cells compared to one fixed tank of 26 gallons. There are times at hot and high elevation air fields where I cannot have full fixed tanks and still fly the passengers out with me because the DENSITY altitude is too high and the runway is too short or too short and has an obstruction at the end. The only way you can reduce weight in most aircraft is to drain fuel or not fill it up and calculate the weight you have removed.

I wish to fly cross-country more in my two-place than single place however I will install an aluminum T-Bar near the center of gravity where I can attach two 5 gallon tip tanks with outboard motor fuel line quick disconnects so I can put them on the single and two place Aviomania gyroplanes. When I burn off the ten gallon in the main tank I will open a valve and let the fuel drain into the main tank keeping them empty upon landing most of the time.
I will also have a blatter tank like in the picture above that fits in the back seat for the two place. This will allow me to fly to the island and once there take it out and be able to fly a passenger to share the sight seeing experience. Then put it back in and fly to the next island.
 
Last edited:

fara

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Messages
3,373
Location
Tampa, FL
Aircraft
AR-1
Total Flight Time
3600+ .. New to gyroplanes
@ Vance I am prepared to fully commit to becoming a gyroplane pilot. I have been interested in the technology since I was a kid reading Popular Mechanics magazines. I certainly understand the cost savings as far as training in a machine I own, but I don't know that I'll go that route. As a complete novice I would like to try a variety of machines before I make a decision to purchase and I imagine I will have done so as I get closer to completing my training. I also understand that it could take up to 4 months to receive your gyro depending on the company and up to another month to build it (per 51% rules). Hopefully I will have completed my private pilot's training by that time. We'll see. However I will keep you in mind as a potential instructor.

@Fara That's too bad about the a/c. I have no experience flying anything and have no idea what temperatures inside the canopy will feel like in the dead of summer. I've been advised by one forum member that I'll cook in the canopy and you say it will be a non-issue at altitude. We'll see! I've researched a 21 lb. unit from a company called Corbi Air and a 41 lb unit from a company called Flight Line. If it is at all necessary and possible, perhaps we can talk about a one-off custom build for me? About the fuel tanks, I would much prefer an aluminum tank, but at 16.8 gallons I feel it's slightly undersized, especially for what I plan to do with my machine. The ELA Eclipse claims a 26 gallon tank. How much of that 26 gallons is actually usable, I do not know. Others like the Calidus and Arrow Copter are in that 17-19 gallon range which in truth makes your machine competitive, however I wouldn't mind a few extra gallons just to be sure. I will certainly keep the AR-1 in mind as I get closer to deciding.
Hi:
16.8 gallons usable is competitive with most gyroplanes. Many have seemingly bigger tanks but actual usable fuel may not be anything more than 17 or 18 gallons.
26 gallon tank is certainly nice and ELA certainly has an upper hand on that and to try to say something different would be foolish. All I can tell you is that when a recreational aircraft is designed, there are a lot of factors that come into play. One thing you will find in recreational pilots is the tendency to not bother to manage fuel carefully but instead fill the fuel tank close to full most of the time. This uselessly reduces performance. So IMO the size of the fuel tank is made for a recreational pilot who may do cross countries whose legs are generally 2 to 2.5 hours long and have plenty of reserve (1.5 hours worth). Usually by this time, you are wanting to go to the bathroom and unless you are like some of my select crazy customers who do 7 hour legs and come up with ingenious ways of spraying their pusher props with urine so when they land no one wants to service them (no names please), you will land like a civilized human and go to the bathroom, make a phone call and head forward.

Now obviously if your mission is what you state, you will need extended range fuel tanks. You can add in as much as a 18 gallon tank feeding into the main tanks to extend your range. Its not the first time I designed that for someone. Andreas Zmuda just got a fuel system like that designed and made by us on his trike to give him a total of 58 gallons of fuel to cross the Atlantic ocean. My friend Mike Blyth has gone around the world not once but 3 times, most recently with his own designed airplane Sling but at heart Mike is a hard core trike pilot. So I know a few people who have gone around the world in trikes, airplanes etc. None I know has done it yet in a gyroplane for some reason. May be someone has but I don't know about them. What is needed on the machine to do that, I know quite well.

I would however offer you this advise which may already be within your reasoning and planning. These around the world type flights are under taken by pilots with a lot of experience and not just experience of throwing their aircraft around and beating their chests but a lot of mature decision making on many cross countries within a country itself. Its a different mindset that allows someone of do such flights safely than someone who can fly aggressively locally.

In essence, what I am saying is that you may take two years flying normally before you may attempt such adventures. This will all become more clear to you as you progress in your aviation adventure. The goal is to have fun while being safe. I wish you blue skies and pleasant journeys.
 
Top