Rotax 582 UL

BoneyM

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Question, I knew this fellow that was flying his Ultralight, winged aircraft last week and he crashed it into this lake, but the aircraft is still in there, he told me its covered under his insurance, and he's not going after it.

Can anyone tell me is it worth going after, its in 80 feet of water he says, so maybe a boat and a graphing hook might be able too find it. would the engine still be worth the effort?
 

MrGrey

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If its fresh water... then go for it! Guys run Rotax powered snowmobiles over water by us for fun. When they go under they just pull it out, turn it over, pour out the water, dump ether in the cylinders, and start em up. If anything it would be a fun mission!
 

BEN S

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I have done extensive...

I have done extensive...

underwater recovery jobs. Best way is to dive on it and use a float bag then pick your tie off points carefully so you don't rip off something expensive. If you haven't ever used a float bag get someone who has, one wrong move and your embolised.
I would certainly go after it if it was me.
Ben S
 

BEN S

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ummmmm...by the way..

ummmmm...by the way..

Boney, which lake would that be?
Just kidding, I would love a free 582 if anyone is giving one away!
Ben S
 

automan1223

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Scuba..

Scuba..

80 Feet is recoverable but you would have to know within a pretty good area where it was. Setting up a search grid in 80 feet is arduous even in good visiblity. Your bottom time is also going to be low. Sounds like you will need a fairly good sized boat and a team of divers if you are not certified yourself. Even if you can get it to the surface if it is in a remote area you may have problems trolling back with wreckage in tow....

good luck keep us posted.

J
 

BEN S

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Find it on a fish finder first..

Find it on a fish finder first..

Than make an exploratory dive to confirm the method of raising it and lift points. Next dive bring the float bags and tie off ropes. Once you have it floated to the surface, tie off the whole mess and troll back towards shore slowly. once you get within 33 feet depth of shore start planning how to get it on shore. If total wilderness use a Spanish windlass to beach it. Best is a jeep or truck with a winch (or a truck with a wench works too!)
And have wetsuited divers standing by to assist it up onto the beach gently.
If youre gonna lose it again it will be above 33 feet so no DCS or RNT to worry about.
Call me my salvor prices are pretty decent....one free 582!
Ben S
 

groundhog

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helloooo aviation forum remember.... to confirm its location pick a day with low wind (no waves) and fly over close to high noon. Probably not visible but might be and the first option should include flying. A flying enthusiast up here has one of those flying zodiacs and that is how he fishes.
 

BoneyM

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Well we found the ultra light today, but it looks like its not 80 feet of water, we used my friend side scanning fish finder, and you cans clearly see it, but its closer to 210 feet of water, we came out with a 150 feet of rope and this hook we made up, so we have the spot marked on our map, and tomorrow night I will let you guys know how it goes. We will have a pontoon boat, and 300 feet of rope, hopefully we can snag it. We will be doing what Ben has talked about, it won't come out of the water till we close to the shore, also today I got in writing a letter from the guy we can keep it, if we get it, don't want him saying after we get it out that he wants it now.
But my friend says its maritime rights of salvage so he can't say anything, but just in case.
Wish us luck.
 

BEN S

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Boney...

Boney...

Its probably a good thing you got that in writing. Don't quote me, but "Salvor's Rights" may not apply in this case as the insurance company will own it after the claim is paid. That doesn't mean I wouldn't snag it, but I wouldn't let them know what I was up to.:)
Ben S
 

WHY

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HI Boney

contact you closest scuba training club and go from there , they have probably got a lot of experience in retrieving boat motors and fishing gear and will know all the needed contacts.

Tony
 

automan1223

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Out of reach

Out of reach

210' is out of reach !!!

You are way out of the sport diving tables (in vcw ....very cold water no less) , which means you are in serious tech diving, exotic mixed gasses dry suits and serious decompression times. At this point you either have really good friends with the right (expensive) gear and training & you are going to spend some dough to get it which would negate the return of recovery. Technically its out of reach depth wise. Sport diving tables give you about 130-140 ft and maybe 8 mins bottom time,.. Unless you can hook it with an ROV.....without getting wet.

Good luck but no parts is worth death or a bad case of the bends.

J
 

WHY

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Your right about sport diving at that depth, but a sport diver could be valuable at shallow dept in assisting retrevial and the dive master would know the right people.

Tony
 

phantom

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rotax 582 ul

rotax 582 ul

this engine needs to be started as soon as it gets out of water, if this is not possible you need to remove the engine from the aircraft while it is in shallow water with the engine below the surface, then it can be transfered to a tub of clean fresh water for transport to your shop, then yuo can remove the prugs and pour in water based coolant oil for cutting tools and turn the crank many times to suck the oil into the bearings to prevent rust while you are changing the coils and cleaning the carbs, at that depth the ignition will need to be replaced due to water being forced into it. I have done this many times and the engines are fine after dried out with at least an hour of running.
 

All_In

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Not sure over 10,000+ logged FW, 260+ ultralights, sailplane, hang-gliders
1) Better check Maritime Salvage Law!

It is not what most of us believe from watching moves and TV.

You do not get title to the boat or aircraft just because it's abandoned. That would be like finding someones abandoned car in the desert and sealing it, saying it is yours now because you towed it back to your house.

What the Marine Salvage laws says is:
If you are not part of the crew of the sunk or abandoned vessel or aircraft that you may file a lien on the aircraft or vessel for what it cost you to retrieve it plus the court will award more the more you risk your life retrieving it.

Salvage law has as a basis that a salvor should be rewarded for risking his life and property to rescue the property of another from peril. Salvage law is in some ways similar to the wartime law of prize, the capture, condemnation and sale of a vessel and its cargo as a spoil of war, insofar as both compensate the salvor/captors for risking life and property.

For instance, a vessel taken as a prize, then recaptured by friendly forces on its way to the prize adjudication, is not deemed a prize of the rescuers (title merely reverts to the original owner).
But the rescuing vessel is entitled to a claim for salvage at what it cost them plus peril.

Likewise a vessel found badly damaged, abandoned and adrift does not become a prize of a rescuing vessel, but the rescuers may claim salvage

What you have to do is go to federal court in every case to place a lien on the vessel as it become the insurance companies property after they pay off the insured.

However in many cases the risk of peril and costs to retrieve is more than the value so you do end up owning the vessel/aircraft and cargo.

2) As for the recovery I done this with aircraft!
Ben and others are correct and it is too deep. Best bet is air bags and a ROV.

With an airplane it will fly underwater much like in the air.

If you snag it and the HS is not flying it up but down it will fly into the mud and you will just drag it on the bottom flipping it and wrecking it further.

We had to float it to the surface and make the stick to fly slightly up and not in a turn.

Best way to do that was to put a pilot in it with a scuba rig on just in case.

As we towed it the cabin actually raised above the water line and the pilot could breath.

However we have to rig the door open with a block of wood so the water would drain when we started towing her very, very slowing all the way back to a boat ramp and then just towed her out of the water.


PS:
You may buy a used very large drag net.

Rigging the mouth open twice the size of the aircraft.

The net is weighted along the bottom. So using side scan sonar it could be possible to net her and slowing pull her to a depth where a diver could put air bags on her and finish the job as described above.

Full of water and drag you will have to VERY,VERY Slowly raise the net or your line will break and/or the wings may fold.
 
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BoneyM

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Oh just wanted to say I got that Ultralight out of the water the other day, there wasn't much left of it I am afraid to say, the engine is sitting on my work bench it does run, the ultra light well lets just say there isn't much to see, looks like he barrel rolled the thing coming in because the wings were folded up, the front wheel was blown, nothing to save but the engine, the seat and gas tank.
It cost me just under 500 to get this out of Lake Ontario, and brr was it cold.
 

BEN S

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Hooyah!

Hooyah!

Great return on your investment!
Ben S
 

WHY

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Did the previous owner say whether the engine was running when it went in, or dead engine or structure failure ??

Tony
 
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