Robinson Helicopter Company Turns 50

[okikuma]

Robinson Helicopter Company Turns 50

Wayne

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/october/pilot/romeo-hotel?utm_source=ebrief&utm_medium=email

 

[GyroFan1]

Robinson Helicopter Company History in 8 minutes. Fingers crossed for another 50!

 

[Mayfield]

Hi Vladek,

I'm going to ask you a question in another thread entitled "Polish aircraft."

Thanks,

Jim

 

[GyroFan1]

Hi Jim, sure no prob. I'll do my best to help you out.

 

[MikeBoyette]

Boy they have a much worse rep than I ever thought. Just watched a doc based from NZ. I'm very ignorant of helicopters but, the issues seen to have some validity. Not sure about numbers but I don't recall Bell having so many mast bumping accidents. Correct me if I am wrong or misinformed.

 

[GyroChuck]

Boy they have a much worse rep than I ever thought. Just watched a doc based from NZ. I'm very ignorant of helicopters but, the issues seen to have some validity. Not sure about numbers but I don't recall Bell having so many mast bumping accidents. Correct me if I am wrong or misinformed.

You are correct about the Mast bumping. That is why the FAA has an SFAR 73 pertaining to the R22/R44 pertaing to additional training and time in the R22/R44.

It is the first item in part Ecfr 14 part 61.

Federal Register :: Request Access

 

[gyroplanes]

Don't forget, Frank started out in gyros.

 

[WaspAir]

Don't forget, Frank started out in gyros.

Actually, he cut his teeth on the Cessna Skyhook but went straight to Umbaugh (A&S 18A) and then to McCulloch. Pretty good pedigree, I'd say.

 

[gyroplanes]

When I went through Robinson school in 2021, Frank's son was in my class. I had lunch with him and he had some very interesting tales about the birth of Robinson Helicopters. It was the younger son, not the one that now heads the company.
Glenn Bundy had the Cessna Skyhook history film. I built a model of the Hook as a kid. Giant missles on the tailboom , no weight and balance issues there. I still have a kit in my rare models collection. They were hopping rides in the Cessna at the worlds fair in Seattle, famous picture of it flying by the Space needle. Cessna bought them all back, shredded them and buried them. If I remember correctly

 

[Aaron R]

Boy they have a much worse rep than I ever thought. Just watched a doc based from NZ. I'm very ignorant of helicopters but, the issues seen to have some validity. Not sure about numbers but I don't recall Bell having so many mast bumping accidents. Correct me if I am wrong or misinformed.

Robinson had a high accident rate early on, I suppose when the R22 was the main product. The SFAR 73 training and other factors brought the rate down. It's actually great training, and relevant to a variety of aircraft types, especially those with teetering rotors.

I would take with a grain of salt the message coming out of NZ. I love those guys and the country is a great place to fly, but unforgiving. My Robinson instructor had 20k+ hours in all kinds of helicopters around the world (including NZ) and he disagreed with their opinion of the R44. In his view, the NZ pilots were cowboys who pushed the limits. I don't know who's right, I just take it with a grain of salt. My impression is, they're mostly good people with a unique flying culture.

Regarding the R44, I flew it and the Bell 206B, about equal time on each. I like both. The R44 cyclic looks janky, but after 10 minutes of flying you are used to it. It leaves the CFI grip up too high, but those who have instructed say you get used to that also. I like that I can remove and stow the left seat controls in about one minute to take a passenger. Tail rotor authority is good. I think it is a pretty smart design, nothing seems over- or under-engineered. The tall mast looks goofy but I guess that's how it handles the two-per-rev. Rotor inertia is low, but manageable. R22 is even lower, of course. Maybe they should have put bladders in all the fuel tanks, I think it's an option. They got sued for that, but when you read the story you find out the pilot flew too close to the fuel island and crashed. So I'm skeptical about the horror stories unless there is data or reasoning to go along with it. It's been awhile since I looked at Robinson accident rate data, but I think the improvement happened many years ago.

All in all, I feel like Frank Robinson did really well. A great engineer in my opinion. He started with nothing in the 70's and created a line of helicopters conforming to part 27, and for the best price. He worked out issues over the years, and added new models and features. They have delivered the best-selling light helicopter in the world for many years now. All this while manufacturing in a very expensive state (CA). If I had to choose between a R66 (turbine version) and a B206, I don't know which I would pick. They're both good. I suspect the bad reputation that sticks to the Robinson is mostly from people who haven't flown it. I can't figure out why it's so hard to fly a teetering rotor system without shoving the cyclic forward. I'll bet passengers and first-time students caused many of the mast-bumps, it's hard to explain otherwise.

 

[RogerB]

Boy they have a much worse rep than I ever thought. Just watched a doc based from NZ. I'm very ignorant of helicopters but, the issues seen to have some validity. Not sure about numbers but I don't recall Bell having so many mast bumping accidents. Correct me if I am wrong or misinformed.

Is this the documentary you’re referring to?

Took a photo with my daughter next to an R44 earlier this past year, they are pretty machines

 

[WaspAir]

Robinson is always revising and improving for safety. Their derated Lycoming piston engines are very reliable. After some stoppages due to carb ice in R22s, they devised an automatic carb heat scheme - when the collective goes down the carb heat knob comes up. When low rotor rpm proved dangerous in the early days, they fitted a governor (since revised as well). Frank fully supported the SFAR 73 rules.

I got all my helicopter ratings in the early models, flying the R22HP and R22Alpha Instrument Trainer. After that, I flew the Mariner, Beta, Beta II, 44Astro, and 44Raven. Their dispatch reliability always impressed me - nothing seemed to need attention between scheduled maintenance.

 

[Andino]

Is this the documentary you’re referring to?

What I don't understand is how "Choppy" (a highly experienced helo pilot and flying service operator) purchased two new R44s whilst unaware of the alleged mast-bumping fatalities. Unless these fatalities occurred after her purchase, it seems a lack of due diligence on her part. I do feel bad for her loss, though.

 

[MikeBoyette]

Is this the documentary you’re referring to?

Took a photo with my daughter next to an R44 earlier this past year, they are pretty machines View attachment 1160525

Yes it is. I stumbled on to it on YouTube. Being very ignorant about Robinsons I thought it was very interesting. It reminds me of the bad rep gyros got from PPO and PIO fatalities.

 

[Aaron R]

Here is a really good article about a recent design change which will eventually reach all Robinson models. I think the articles I've read by this author, Elan Head, have been well researched. The skeptic could read this and say, this proves the Robinsons were always dangerous. However, in my view it is a good sign when a manufacturer invests in researching, modeling, designing, building, flight testing, and certifying continual improvements in their aircraft. It is no small investment, and they do this at the risk of acknowledging, implicitly or explicitly, the flaws of previous models. But it's the only way continual improvement can happen.

 

[Andino]

Kudos to Robinson for refining their product. A pity that RAF never bothered with adding an H-stab.