"rethinking" the PRA

ms80831

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I love it Bud, (and I usually call you Mr. Oneal)
..." And by the way, Bud is absolutely correct. There is no 110%. A man can't give 110%, he can only give 100%. Don't be arrogant or ignorant, it's just 100%. I am sorry Oconnor that you don't understand that the analogy is overused. ..."

.
Scott, you are talking past one another. you're assuming that 100 % refers to every waking hour or all the time a person has. Tim is talking about available time or free time.
 

Brent Drake

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Scott, you are talking past one another. you're assuming that 100 % refers to every waking hour or all the time a person has. Tim is talking about available time or free time.
I've only been on the board since August 7th. Have already spent 30+ hours working on things. How many of the other members can say they have put in 30 hours in the last 5 years. I only know of a handful. Those people do an awesome job.
 

BUD ONEAL

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And my hat is off to you Brent. If you keep it up you will soon be giving what I did for so many years, and by the way I LOVED my job and did not ever think that it was a problem or a job. A labor of love instead .
 

barnstorm2

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I love it Bud, (and I usually call you Mr. Oneal) you hit nail after nail on the head.

But they tell you that you are wrong.

How much did the fireworks show cost? How many dues paying PRA members were in attendance to see them? Oh wait, I bet they were free.
He is wrong and so are you.

Perhaps you could take the time, say 60 seconds to google that "fact" before you just jump to a conclusion and start accusing the hard working people that have arranged those FREE fireworks and have put in thousands of hours of volunteer service over years of time?

The fact that the fireworks are free and a benefit of the PRA owning an airport have been stated on this forum alone dozens of times, not a hard fact to track down before you go off just trying to put good people down for no good reason.

Scott, you are talking past one another. you're assuming that 100 % refers to every waking hour or all the time a person has. Tim is talking about available time or free time.
Correct.

.
 

ms80831

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Paul,

You are correct. We need to focus on the original intent of this thread. Which is a good idea by the way. (Re thinking the PRA, not rehashing pet peeves.)

If each member interested in improving our organization (and therefore our sport/hobby) would just commit to and follow up on one item , we collectively would be that much better off for it. There is more than one way to get to the goal of an improved viable growing PRA. It starts with us.

I had such an idea 2 years ago when I came to Mentone and decided to dedicate a minimum of 4 hour each day to sharing the gyro flight experience with those who were interested. If every experienced pilot with a 2 place machine did that at every show, we would be exposing thousands of potential new members to what brought us to the sport/hobby. The thrill of gyro flight.

When I am able to attend events, I will continue to do this. It's not work, it's a joy.

So I ask each person reading this thread.... what idea can you develop and implement?

If your idea needs more than one person to help, who can you ask to help you make it happen?

M
 

barnstorm2

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Paul,

You are correct. We need to focus on the original intent of this thread. Which is a good idea by the way. (Re thinking the PRA, not rehashing pet peeves.)
Correct.

The thread(s) started out with good intent, but the usual Troll Fest by the typical suspects has set in, which the Rotary Forum is famous for.

No good deeds will go un-troll-punished, which is why so many experienced knowledgeable people in our sport will no longer post here.

.
 

AirScooter

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OConnor,

If you would read before you post, you would know that in post 100, I said that I stood corrected on the fireworks issue.
As for the rest of it, Bud nor I are wrong.
The folks who run for board are expected to lead by example. So he was right, sorry it hurts your feelings.

What folks do not want to realize is that perception is the rule. PRA is perceived as a tad bit shady in the past. Hard to overcome whether its true or not. And I would like to think that it is not.

This thread was started to rethink the PRA, but somehow 90% of suggestions are shot down.

As for helping, I am not a PRA member, but I have already commited to help at the PRA airventure display or booth this coming year, including helping finance it. (And no, I do not have the time to organize it, seems that's the boards responsibility.)
 
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AirScooter

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How many times has the PRA been to Washington DC to lobby on behalf of gyrocopter issues? Is that one of the services offered?
 

barnstorm2

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How many times has the PRA been to Washington DC to lobby on behalf of gyrocopter issues? Is that one of the services offered?
Zero.

The FAA is not in DC.

However, the PRA is extraordinarily active in working with the FAA for an organization it's size.

It has a written agreement with the FAA to share safety, training and regulatory information with dedicated contacts.

The PRA to date is the only org to produce FAA WINGS approved light sport presentations for rotorcraft, and produced an FAA Safety Team audited and approved sport pilot on line ground school program for new pilot and recurring training requirements.

PRA safety contacts have won FAA awards for their work with the FAA on rotorcraft issues.

There is more but that is all I am willing to type on a iPhone.

Could we do more? Yes, much. Funds generated by an active airport manager could do marvelous things as well as volunteers.

BTW, thank you for asking first, rather than just declaring that we don't/should. If everyone did that, these threads would be productive and less heated.
 
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cgmg

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As one of the people who is putting their money where their mouth is, and actually helping to improve the PRA, I find it really irritating to hear all the bad-mouthing of the current board members.

I don't know all of them yet, but the ones I have met don't deserve one iota of the crap being said about them here. The ones I've met care a lot about this organization, and don't deserve the beating they've taken here.

Bringing up the past actions of older board members is crying over spilt milk. Doubt any of the current board members have been there over five years, yet have the unfortunate experience of dealing with the current financial crunch.

The greatest idea in the world can't come to fruition if no one is willing to do the work, or there are no funds to spend to increase the income.

We lost a huge asset with Tim having to step down from the board. It sounds like both Brent and John are doing their best to fill that void.

Cut the board some slack, stop assuming they're all dishonest(they're not), and get off your duff and volunteer.

Which one of you is going to do your part to improve things for our organization? If you're not willing to do anything other than criticize the few people who are making an effort, why in the world should they listen to you?

Which one of you naysayers is going to step up to the plate?
 
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Vance

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I enjoy being a member of the PRA.

I like all the people in PRA leadership I have met.

In my opinion they are smart, honest hard working people with a passion for gyroplanes. I feel they are not without ideas they would like to implement.

I have enjoyed volunteering to help with tasks for the PRA and it has always enhanced my experience.

I like the Mentone airport and feel it makes good financial sense.

I like the relationship the PRA has with the FAA.

I feel it is money well spent when I send my dues in.

I feel my gyroplane experience will be diminished if the PRA ceases to exist.

I like the magazine and have enjoyed submitting articles for it.

I am certain that many things could be improved in the PRA.

One of my best good friends who has made and lost more money than I will ever see three times tells me that if he makes the right decision 75% of the time he will be successful. He reminds me that he will make the wrong decision 25% of the time. With as many decisions as he makes that is a lot of bad decision making.

I am certain that not all the decisions that have been made by the past PRA board of directors were good decisions.

I am certain that there are things that could be done better by the PRA.

I am amazed the PRA has lasted as long as it has and hope it continues.

I have observed that management by consensus usually produces mediocrity and I value leadership.

Thank you, Vance
 

Dean_Dolph

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...... Sadly, not much has changed and we still run the PRA like a 1960's company. It's no wonder we can't attract the youngsters........
Tom, I believe I attended my 1st PRA convention in 1969 and my 1st thought as I walked along the flight line in Hemet CA. was what are all these 'old' people doing here, where are the guys my age or younger?

The PRA has always been, and in my opinion, always will be an 'old' man's activity. The assumption being 'old' starts at 45. The 'youngsters' simply don't have the disposable income when they are on the way up the employment ladder and have families to raise. I don't see that scenario changing any time soon if ever. However, I do believe that kids, (the younger the better) should be exposed to our activity and encouraged to participate where they can and maybe at the same time get ole dad excited about it. Then possibly the 'kids' will eventually support a organization like the PRA when, in turn, they become the old guys.
 

ms80831

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Dean.


That is how I felt when I joined the PRA in Dec 1973. I was 20 years old.

It's also interesting to note that it was almost 14 years before I got my rotorcraft rating and bought my first Air Command. Unfortunately due to the altitude I live at, that experience turned out to be short-lived.
I was 56 years old before I was able to own and fly a gyrocopter on a regular basis.

The PRA is and always will be made up of more guys in their fifties and sixties, than those in thier twenties and thirties.

It is good to remember, the seed was planted with me when I was just 20 years old. I survived for many years with only the monthly magazine to keep my rotorcraft dream alive.
 
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GyroDoug

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It's our attitude that needs to change!

It's our attitude that needs to change!

As for helping, I am not a PRA member, but I have already committed to help at the PRA airventure display or booth this coming year, including helping finance it. (And no, I do not have the time to organize it, seems that's the boards responsibility.)
Scott,

I do not want to come across as I'm picking on you, but I just can't sit here and not respond to your comment above. I think your comments are right in line with many others who seem to all share some general misconceptions that I believe need to change, if we ever expect the PRA to flourish.

I think this attitude of "it's someone else's job to do that" is exactly what causes our organization to struggle. While I certainly agree that anyone running for the Board needs to be willing to serve and work to help our organization, and I have told our Board members they are expected to accept assignments and do work and if they aren't willing to do that, they need to resign from the Board. But even Board members are volunteers. They are not paid to spend 10 or 20 or 30 hours per week, every week, to serve the rest of the organization. They are simply volunteers who have volunteered to give of their time to help support the organization. Some Board Members put in a tremendous amount of time and work into the organization and others do less, but it is not our place to tell them how much they have to donate. We have set minimum standards and expectations as a Board and Board Members will meet that standard or be asked to resign, but above that, it is their prerogative to decide how much more they have to give.

Just like it is not my place to tell you how many days you should be willing to donate and spend at a booth at Oshkosh, (to make your suggested idea work), or how much money you should be willing to donate to help fund that project, it is also not your place to demand how much other volunteers should donate. We all have complete control over what we choose in our lives, but we do not have the right to dictate other people's choices. We are all volunteers, donating our time and money and efforts and right now a small number give an awful lot, and a little larger number give some, but most members give little or nothing.

Now I know the typical response to that is, "well they give dues to the organization and that should be enough". But the facts are many don't even support the organization with dues because they have convinced them self they are voting their disapproval of "whatever" by withholding their dues. They still consider themselves a part of our group and love to get on forum threads and make suggestions or complaints about how they feel the organization is being run, but they aren't even dues paying members. Personally, I find that kind of ironic, but that is a topic for another day. But all of us members (even Board Members) pay dues, and that isn't near enough to make an organization like ours work. It also takes a lot of volunteer hours by people who care enough about our sport and are willing to give more than lip service to helping build it and make it stronger.

If you honestly care about our sport and want it to grow and have an organization that can provide benefits to our group then I suggest you do some soul searching and decide just what you (personally) can do about it. Making suggestions about what everyone else should be doing honestly has very little value. It is only when people stand up and do something that anything changes. If I had sat around and waited for someone else to form a PRA chapter here in UT. so I could have some resources that could help me and provide benefits to me, to help me get started in this sport, I would still be sitting around with no help in sight. Instead, I got to work and formed a chapter (PRA CHapter 2) and today I am not alone, we have a great group and others do a lot to support one another, but I had to get it started. That seems to be the way this whole process works.

It's time we quit saying, "what has this organization done for me lately?" and start deciding "what do I have to offer the organization and others that share my same interests?" I believe its our attitude that needs to change if we really want to turn this organization around. We have some very successful Local Chapters that have been able to develop this kind of an attitude (for their local chapter) but for some reason, they seem to feel they are a separate entity from the National organization. They seem to have an "us against them" kind of attitude, where they say "What is PRA doing to support our local chapter?" Instead they should be thinking, "how can our strong local chapter support and help the National organization so there can be more strong local chapters like ours?" Our thoughts have got to get away from this inward focus, and become more centered on serving others, if we really want to make a difference.

Some have caught that vision, and as President of the organization, I get to see many people who have that kind of attitude, but to be honest with you, there simply aren't enough of these kind of folks to build the kind of organization that many people seem to expect us to be. We are making great strides with what we have. The organization has turned and is going in a positive direction (slowly). If you want to see that pace pick up, then decide to get more involved. Join the organization and pay dues and then decide to give even more. That's what many of us are doing now and we invite you to join us. Together we can make a difference.

Doug Barker
PRA Pres.
 

StanFoster

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Ya know.....if there is one thing I have learned in life....its that you typically get out of something what effort you put into it. One just cant keep taking....sometimes we all have to put back. If someone wants something out of the PRA, then one needs to put something into it. The paybacks are awesome.

But to just whine and expect everything rolled out for you......its not going to happen.


Stan
 

Brent Drake

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I believe that the PRA is like out country.
Out of 1,300 members we have approximately 100 that helps the organization. 1,200 just set back and say what can you do for me today. What you are doing is wrong. And I want more freebee's.

My goal is to get 100 new members by the end of the year.
 

StanFoster

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Brent- You will be a good one to prime the pumps for the PRA. Its good to get new blood....fresh ideas....fresh energy ...and you are definitely going to pull your weight.

This last convention was a good one in my opinion....but there was so little hype about it...I was expecting a ghost town when I flew in. Such wasn't the case..... But, you are already starting as early as you can for next years Mentone.....and all I can say is I plan on being there with my Helicycle doing my little bit of helping add to the convention.....and at least not asking why the PRA isn't doing this and that for me!


Stan
 

Boots

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Brent,
Do you realize you called 1200 PRA members useless ! That's a hell of a way to kick off a Grand 2015 PRA Convention WOW
 

Brent Drake

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Brent,
Do you realize you called 1200 PRA members useless ! That's a hell of a way to kick off a Grand 2015 PRA Convention WOW
I did not say useless. Quit reading between the lines.

But in reality how many does support the PRA other than give there membership fee.

For many of you. How about printing the Ezine and dropping it off at the local airport for others to read. Were going to start having a page with an application for the PRA soon.
 
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