"rethinking" the PRA

[Steve_UK]

I agree with Kai - the original quote is not supported by the evidence I see month in month out.

 

[Abid]

1000 members at $36 (looking on the black side) is £36,000 per year
1000 x 36 = $36,000 that is $3,000 per month which sounds like enough to play with. depends how much the museum and airport cost to run. even if there is only $1,000 per month I would have thought that the PRA can affoud to nuy a member a bit of benefit. even if it's just a sew on patch or $10 discount on insurance.

$36000 is nothing. We are in the US of A, not China.

 

[Abid]

..."Aero News

In the main exhibit area, Autogyro of Germany, and Chesapeake Light Sport, the US distributor based in Maryland, are here with open and enclosed tandem models, and the new, enclosed, side-by-side Calidus. These gyros have been outselling fixed-wing LSA-class machines in Europe over the past four years, and the US Department of Justice has been funding tests of Autogyro's models by law enforcement agencies in the US under the public use exemption. ..."

Light Sport airplanes outsell gyroplanes quite easily. Flight Design outsells Auto-Gyro Gmbh any day. I am quite good friends with Tom Peghiney and know Matthias and Oliver at Flight Design well. Flight Design is I believe one of two companies that actually holds a TC in China with CAAC. The second one being Aurora and third which will get the TC directly from CAAC will be Searey (Progressive Aerodyne at end of October. It will be the only active American model to do so ... I know because I am consulting as airworthiness engineering project lead on the project). There are 400 GA airplanes going to China roughly every year right now. The other European models that can be imported in China have a VTC (Verification of Type Certificate) but not a direct TC from CAAC. So do airplanes outsell gyroplanes even from Europe, yes they do.

DOJ LSA program also has airplanes in it as well and powered parachutes. It really has not grown as much as you think. Its limited so far and its been almost half a decade of testing which you'd think is enough. Its never a great idea to take a police officer and make them a new pilot in a category and then put them as a rookie pilot to do some of the most demanding commercial level flying in a machine to fulfill missions. That requires truly pilots in category with tons of experience to do it safely. This simple fundamental fact is lost on the DOJ program somehow or they know it but that is all they got to work with due to limitations.

 

[Brent Drake]

The PRA membership is up. The money is up. Things are looking much better.

 

[barnstorm2]

1000 members at $36 (looking on the black side) is £36,000 per year
1000 x 36 = $36,000 that is $3,000 per month which sounds like enough to play with. depends how much the museum and airport cost to run. even if there is only $1,000 per month I would have thought that the PRA can affoud to nuy a member a bit of benefit. even if it's just a sew on patch or $10 discount on insurance.

I know it is hard to keep up with the facts with several threads going but...

The PRA does provide an insurance benefit.

The Museum and Airport reduce costs not generate them.

The principal costs are office management and an editor.

.

 

[PW_Plack]

I agree with Kai - the original quote is not supported by the evidence I see month in month out.

It's not that gyros outsell airplanes as a category/class, but that the most popular LSA in Europe is the MTOSport/MTO3. Steve, would that be fair?

 

[BUD ONEAL]

The PRA membership is up. The money is up. Things are looking much better.

If all of this is true then why not post the number ,not inflated, of the members. I can look at the members list and pull out a lot of them that has passed on or just quit so that cannot be used. Post the health of our bank account and a break down of it all for the rank and file can see the "health" of our organization. That will go a long way to making "believers" of the rank and file.

 

[barnstorm2]

If all of this is true then why not post the number ,not inflated, of the members. I can look at the members list and pull out a lot of them that has passed on or just quit so that cannot be used. Post the health of our bank account and a break down of it all for the rank and file can see the "health" of our organization. That will go a long way to making "believers" of the rank and file.

Bud,

This is not a PRA forum and for privacy concerns the PRA is unlikely to put all of the member names on a public list.

You can get all the information you want by attending the BOD meeting at Mentone where the final reports are read. Alternatively, as a PRA member you can contact the treasurer directly. At some point the new numbers will be in the member-only section of the PRA web page when the volunteers get it updated.

The PRA does not need any more great ideas, I have a full notebook of great ideas members gave me when I was on the BOD.

What we need are people willing to step up and put the great ideas into action.

The PRA is not some nebulous entity, it is US, good people working hard for the sport we love.

Want the PRA to offer event insurance, GREAT, contact Brent Drake, tell him you want to do this and then get on the phones and do the leg work calling up insurance companies and compiling offers and quotes.

The same with any other great idea. The people actually DOING work for the org are at 110% capacity. Want your great idea implemented, GOOD! everyone will be grateful when you work to implement it!

Except for the people posting here that have no clue about the programs already in place and the PRA history and just jump to conclusions, all of the ideas posted here are very good and potentially valuable but unless you are confident enough in your good idea to implement it, the value becomes near zero.

.

 

[StanFoster]

Its simple.....if just 20% of us ....1 in 5.... would offer to do something
..hype it up next year...Mentone would take on a huge expansion. However, I had a ball thus year and didn't have enough time to talk to 1/4 of the people I wanted to. I don't need elbow to elbow crowds to have a good time .

 

[BUD ONEAL]

Tim,
We should not have to attend the convention to see what the status of the PRA is. We should not have to call Robert and find out what amount that we have in the bank to work with. Besides when I did call Robert in the past he said that "all the figures" were not in place, And that was three months after the convention . When the sunstates bensen days are over our treasurer can tell to the penny how much was spent,what was taken in and what we have left within two weeks. And it is not a secret!
And just what is the board members supposed to do if not doing what you have told me to do ?

As far as implementing ideas I did for 18 years as president of SunState. We never had to beg money to keep afloat as the PRA is constantly doing. Tell the board members to get off their ass and do what they were elected to do. All this "poor mouthing" makes the PRA look like some charity begging for support.
People doing 110% is hog wash, there is only 100% of any thing so 110% is not even possible and should not make some of your most ardent followers waste a lot of time looking for the non obtainable 10%

You are right on this one Tim, this is not a PRA forum and why in gods sake would members not want any one to see their names on a membership list ? If those who who do not want their names in a members only forum on this site then just what are they hiding from ? Why do we have any members on the forum if not to be able to contact one another?



As far as having a note book full of good ideas as I see it is your job to sort through them and discard some that are not that good and then implement those that are, After all you wanted the job now do it and quit the whining for more people to do what you were elected to do

Sorry to be so harsh but I have listened to this crap for 34 years and it NEVER changes

Bud ONeal, life member #16720

 

[PW_Plack]

Bud, perhaps you missed it. Tim is no longer on the board. While he was, he did more of the heavy lifting than most. His online ground school for members, which I hope will continue, is a highly successful program for turning out Sport Pilots.

I agree with most of your other points, but if I want to contact someone who's on the forum, I can do it easily with a private message here. This is just one of several areas in which PRA has abandoned that function to this forum.

We polled PRA chapters last year, and a majority said their members did not want to be on a published list like the one that used to be in Rotorcraft annually. (I really miss that issue!) I think people who choose not to be listed citing spam concerns are throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but it's their choice.

 

[barnstorm2]

Paul,

Thank you and thank you for answering most of Buds' comments and filling him in on what he missed.

Bud, yes you CAN go over 100%. Ever hear of going over budget? You can go over time budget also.

If I signed up to do 5 hours a work a week for the PRA and I end up having to do 20 hours a week that is over my commitment I am in excess.

I am sorry you don't understand "more than 100% analogies", don't understand the issues of privacy on the internet verses a paper published format that goes only to members, you don't know who just talks and who has managed to get things done.

I did what I was elected to do and now I am off to other projects, if you want something done I suggest you get elected and do it.

.

 

[BUD ONEAL]

I know that you are right Paul but Tim was the one who answered . As far as being polled about names being in the published list I was not and as far as I know sunstate was not. Maybe when Scott was the president and he decided for us all , Don't know not that it mattered the magazine was abandoned any how . We should not have to ask any one as to the health of the PRA it should be published for all PRA members to see.
And as you, I sincerely hope Tim's ground school for gyros continues it is a needed program . I am truly sorry if I ruffled some feathers but all that I pointed out in need of being said.

 

[Brent Drake]

Tim,
We should not have to attend the convention to see what the status of the PRA is. We should not have to call Robert and find out what amount that we have in the bank to work with. Besides when I did call Robert in the past he said that "all the figures" were not in place, And that was three months after the convention . When the sunstates bensen days are over our treasurer can tell to the penny how much was spent,what was taken in and what we have left within two weeks. And it is not a secret!
And just what is the board members supposed to do if not doing what you have told me to do ?

As far as implementing ideas I did for 18 years as president of SunState. We never had to beg money to keep afloat as the PRA is constantly doing. Tell the board members to get off their ass and do what they were elected to do. All this "poor mouthing" makes the PRA look like some charity begging for support.
People doing 110% is hog wash, there is only 100% of any thing so 110% is not even possible and should not make some of your most ardent followers waste a lot of time looking for the non obtainable 10%

You are right on this one Tim, this is not a PRA forum and why in gods sake would members not want any one to see their names on a membership list ? If those who who do not want their names in a members only forum on this site then just what are they hiding from ? Why do we have any members on the forum if not to be able to contact one another?



As far as having a note book full of good ideas as I see it is your job to sort through them and discard some that are not that good and then implement those that are, After all you wanted the job now do it and quit the whining for more people to do what you were elected to do

Sorry to be so harsh but I have listened to this crap for 34 years and it NEVER changes

Bud ONeal, life member #16720

Bud, Apparently you did not read the responses above yours. The ideas are there. The manpower to implement them is whats lacking.I can give you a list of things that would be nice to have done. You pick from the list and do it. If not, sit back and watch

The PRA is not begging for money to keep afloat. Your reading into something that is not there.

The only rethinking the PRA needs is the membership to help and I mean hands on work, quit being a keyboard jockey with ideas and reasons to help or correct something you think is not right. The BOD cannot do it all. There is way to much to do.

 

[SWaRC]

Bud I can feel the emotions in your post. And I love it! Yes you are pissed for a good reason. You gave more to this organization than most. I can feel your anger. And it is a good thing. It shows that you care. Once people like Bud go silent ya'll be left with nothing..... Soooo don't gang up on him......

 

[PW_Plack]

We're almost 100 posts into this thread, and it's way off Tom's original topic. Revisiting old gripes and personal contention is not "rethinking." So, with apologies to Tom, let me see if I can re-launch his original topic in a different light.

Pretend PRA does not exist. You've surveyed the current personal rotorcraft landscape and decided there might be room for a national or international organization to serve participants in the hobby/sport. The forum is here, Powered Sport Flying Magazine is thriving, EAA has its mission well-defined and is doing a good job.

What is left to be done? How do you do it?

Every so often, it's important to zero-base a discussion, not building on whatever baggage you have, but assuming a fresh start. Let's stop rehashing stuff and see what everyone thinks.

 

[AirScooter]

Tim,
We should not have to attend the convention to see what the status of the PRA is. We should not have to call Robert and find out what amount that we have in the bank to work with. Besides when I did call Robert in the past he said that "all the figures" were not in place, And that was three months after the convention . When the sunstates bensen days are over our treasurer can tell to the penny how much was spent,what was taken in and what we have left within two weeks. And it is not a secret!
And just what is the board members supposed to do if not doing what you have told me to do ?

As far as implementing ideas I did for 18 years as president of SunState. We never had to beg money to keep afloat as the PRA is constantly doing. Tell the board members to get off their ass and do what they were elected to do. All this "poor mouthing" makes the PRA look like some charity begging for support.
People doing 110% is hog wash, there is only 100% of any thing so 110% is not even possible and should not make some of your most ardent followers waste a lot of time looking for the non obtainable 10%

You are right on this one Tim, this is not a PRA forum and why in gods sake would members not want any one to see their names on a membership list ? If those who who do not want their names in a members only forum on this site then just what are they hiding from ? Why do we have any members on the forum if not to be able to contact one another?



As far as having a note book full of good ideas as I see it is your job to sort through them and discard some that are not that good and then implement those that are, After all you wanted the job now do it and quit the whining for more people to do what you were elected to do

Sorry to be so harsh but I have listened to this crap for 34 years and it NEVER changes

Bud ONeal, life member #16720

I love it Bud, (and I usually call you Mr. Oneal) you hit nail after nail on the head.

But they tell you that you are wrong.

Bud is voicing exactly what everyone else feels and thinks. He just does it a little more nicely than some can.

So you can tell him he is wrong, that more people need to volunteer etc. He is telling you, " lead by example ", It is what you signed up for.

And by the way, Bud is absolutely correct. There is no 110%. A man can't give 110%, he can only give 100%. Don't be arrogant or ignorant, it's just 100%. I am sorry Oconnor that you don't understand that the analogy is overused.

He is telling you what members and potential members think. So listen or don't, but if you want to grow, maybe you should listen to the people.

How much did the fireworks show cost? How many dues paying PRA members were in attendance to see them? Oh wait, I bet they were free.

 

[Mike484]

The fireworks cost the PRA nothing, it is a deal that was set up with the manufacturer to provide the convention with a free show so they can test out new products before they go on the market.

I just recently saw the same question on another thread. As long as the fireworks have been held, they same question keeps coming up and the same answer is given.

Another example of complaints without facts but, the facts have been posted several times throughout the years. (This is not directed at anyone, just a statement based on the number of times I have seen this question come up.)

 

[PW_Plack]

Oh wait, I bet they were free.

My understanding is that this is a group of fireworks experimenters who use the airport three or four times a year to test their creations, not a company. Their deal requires that one of those test sessions be the show at the convention.

But there's probably someone on the fireworks forum sarcastically questioning the cost of the "free gyroplane airshow" at their fireworks practice, too.

 

[AirScooter]

Well then, I stand corrected on the fireworks.