Raf rotor blade cracks!!!!!!!!!!

Ron :

We are not really that far apart in our thinking, it is just that I have been programmed in a different environment where you must cover all your bases.

I was not knocking Steve, rather I was trying to point out that there seems to be a lack of passing information to students during training probably because until just recently none of us realized the signifigance of the high thrustline in pusher gyros.

As I have previously stated when I wrote the commercial gyroplane exam in California in around 1993 there was zero mention in any study material or in the exams about this problem.

Bottom line is now that this problem has been identified it should be part of every gyro instructors teaching. Jim Mayfield and Paul Bruty to mention two people are addressing this in an excellent way.

Gyros are still the safest and easiest of flying machines to fly...as long as they are designed properly.

Chuck E.
 
Victor said,
"paul you have the cutest kangaroos in the world ! and AC/DC !"

Mate,the only cute roo is a dead one.But I agree bout AC/DC. ;)

"Paul stated an opinion, self boasted, but his opinion, none the less".....Harry,thats just Paul,he dose it all the time. :rolleyes: :D

Ron and Chuck,I'm dissapointed,your both mellowing,or git'n old,scenile............. :p :D
 
GyroRon said:
I am not based at a flight school in Daytona Beach Florida, but Goose Creek is the busiest flight school in the Greater Charlotte area. 9 out of 10 of the Cessna drivers out there don't know the first thing about aerodynamics, other than what they were forced to learn to pass their Written and Practical Exams.
Click to expand...

Ron,

I think the fact is that airplane pilots don't HAVE to understand how and why their machines fly. FW aerodynamics are so well understood that any reasonably intelligent person can use easily available sources to determine whether or not a given design is viable. FW pilots take it for granted that the machines they fly are well designed, stable and, relatively, safe.

Us Gyro pilots can not currently make that assumption. We must be well informed about the whys and how of our machines, or we risk an untimely death. It is incumbent on us, here, to pass on the information that gyro pilots need to keep themselves safe. Mostly we do a very good job. I believe that the most important function of this forum is to present the FACTS, to the best of our current understanding, about gyroplane aerodynamics and operations. We must be open to questions, but we must be direct and unapologetic about refuting dangerous errors and misunderstandings that represent themselves as facts or simply 'another opinion'. This can be a difficult balance to maintain, as I think, this thread illustrates.

As Jim Mayfield writes in his signature, "Stability is not an Opinion". Our job is to make it it clear, to those willing to learn, WHY that is so.
 
Yes Peter it is, your right and I agree. It is easy to get all worked up over these issues - I have gotten worked up many times myself - but we have to check ourselves from time to time, so as not to get carried away. Remember, this is supposed to be fun??? !!!! ;)
 
GyroRon said:
Yes Peter it is, your right and I agree. It is easy to get all worked up over these issues - I have gotten worked up many times myself - but we have to check ourselves from time to time, so as not to get carried away. Remember, this is supposed to be fun??? !!!! ;)
Click to expand...

Damn Right!! :D
 
pwendell said:
I think the fact is that airplane pilots don't HAVE to understand how and why their machines fly. FW aerodynamics are so well understood that any reasonably intelligent person can use easily available sources to determine whether or not a given design is viable.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping I don't take this too out of context, but it was BECAUSE the pilot of a doomed flight knew his shit that saved more lived than he lost. Given those odds, he managed to steer a large passenger jet to an airport with NO RUDDER, NO ELEVATOR, NO AELERONS. He managed his plane on diffenrencial engine thrust alone. Yes it crashed and tumbled end over end. Y'all know the flight I'm referring to. It's everyone's worst nightmare. But that pilot saved half his passengers instead of losing them all because he knew the stability and flight characteristics of his ship. They were never hidden from him to sell more ships. He used that info and, because of it, many people are alive today.
 
I guess I should have said Private airplane pilots. I in no way meant to question the knowledge or skill of professionals. I'll leave that to other professionals:)
 
Harry, I guess we have to agree to disagree. I believe it is a fact that Paul has more gyro time than those 2 put together, and from what I see, they are incompetent instructors. To fly and teach in an extremely unstable gyro without at least a horizontal stab, after all the information on the folly of it has been made known, is indefensible in my opinion.
 
Ken, I'm not going to argue on the point of CFI competency. How many of the thousands of CFI's of all cassifications in the known world, are what we would consider fully competent? I know several CFII and I would take instruction from only one of them. That's my opinion and I base it on the fact that he is a hard taskmaster, as well as being most knowledgeable.

I believe D. Hunne has in excess of 5000 hrs. and J. Logan has in excess of 3000 hrs. in gyroplanes. That's a lot of hours. Paul?

I have flown with Logan; he is really smooth. I have not flown with Hunne but I understand he is a hell of a pilot too. I had no instruction from Logan, so I'm quiet as to his CFI abilities.
 
Harry, I have flown with both the gentlemen in question. I only have a little over 4,000 gyro hours!!!!!!!!!, but I do understand basic gyroplane aerodynamics.

Aussie Paul. :)

ps. Walt, I appologise for the post in capitals, my patience ran out!!!!! and I lost it!!!!
 
I just want to add my observation of Jim Logan. I have been a silent observer until the last year or so. I just got back into gyros again real seriously in 2002. I was at Mentone and just lurked in the shadows. I was real impressed with Jim Logans flying and listened in on some of his chats with fellow pilots. I thought he was most gracious and free to give of his knowledge. I watched him at Mentone 2003...same nice guy...same beautiful demonstrations in his RAF.

This year I was at Mentone in my RAF and I was just getting ready to compete in the spot landing contest. Here comes Jim Logan over to this "nobody" and gave me some very humble advice I thought was very gracious of him. From what little I know of Jim...I feel I know a "lot".

Just my personal opinion and observation... :)

Stan
 
Jim and Duane

Jim and Duane

Just to make myself clear:

1. Jim, Duane and I have serious disgreements on gyroplane stability. We also have disagreements on safe flight procedures and techniques. One of those disagreements actually caused Jim and I to not be on speaking terms.

2. However, and not withstanding the above, I think that both Jim and Duane are just about the best you can be vis-a-vis stick skills. Both of these men routinely exhibit superb ability to master the machine they are flying. I feel so strongly about Jim Logans skill that I offered him a job with AAI. Jim declined. I feel so strongly about his skill that he would still be welcome in our stable.

3. Lest anyone think that I am wishy washy on stability: I am not!!! I do however think it important for me to acknowledge superior skill when I observe it.

Jim
 
I have flown with more than 7 gyro CFI all of them have teach me something .
Now I met J.Mayfield in a convention (I know he wont remember every gyro pilot) But I felt that he was good man and a profecional Pilot. I am happy to see the kind of good person he is when he post his open and honest opinion. We shall all be the same.

Be honest, open and voice our feelings without getting into the personal zone. Now the same day I also met Steve MCgowan and my first thought was "wow this guy is crazy , How can he do that? "

Then I took my comercial endorsement with him and my opinion chage 180' He is a good man and an excellent instructor ( a bit crazy but I am the same ).

ChuckP
 
Jim M.

Very open, warm comment re. Logan and Hunne. Might I also add...gallant.

You are indeed a gentleman.

Thank you.
 
I have to blame Paul, SO I can feel better. I use magnaflux and the spray cloud floated all the way in to the hangar and Now I have my beautifull yellow gyro with red freckles. I should send Paul an airline ticket so he can come down and sand and polish my gyro again.

Nahh too expensive and he will be chasing the cows in my gyro, So I will have to spend this weekend sanding,polishing and consuming Coronas just becasue of my mistake.

chuckP
 
Sorry Chuck!!!!!!!!! LOL

Aussie Paul. :)
 
dont you guys ever get bored bashing a good man like jim logon, i have never seen such hate for a man like some of you gyro-gods have for jim. even if he put a stab on his machine it wouldn't stop ya'll, you just start bitch'in about him not being clt.
 
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