RAF 2000 for sale

[kebekwoodcraft]

Question someone ever see a RAF with floats ?

 

[Vance]

Question someone ever see a RAF with floats ?

I have not seen an RAF 2000 gyroplane on floats.

An RAF 2000 already has a high thrust line in relation to the center of gravity and many knowledgeable people feel this is directly related to many RAF accidents.

Floats would make it worse.

 

[kebekwoodcraft]

I have not seen an RAF 2000 gyroplane on floats.

An RAF 2000 already has a high thrust line in relation to the center of gravity and many knowledgeable people feel this is directly related to many RAF accidents.

Floats would make it worse.

Do you mean to heavy in the front ?

 

[Vance]

Do you mean to heavy in the front ?

An object in space rotates around the center of gravity.

When the vertical center of gravity of a gyroplane is below the thrust line of the propeller thrust makes the gyroplane want to pitch nose down.

The fantasy of the designer is the rotor thrust will stop that. In my opinion using the rotor thrust to stop a high thrust line gyroplane from bunting over is not reliable as the rotor thrust varies depending on the situation.

Floats will move the thrust line further below the thrust line exacerbating the problem.

 

[Vance]

I realy interested I looking for gyro license in Mexico also thanks

An FAA issued private pilot, rotorcraft-gyroplane certificate is good in Mexico with the addition of a radio license and the aircraft needs to have a aircraft station license.

I am not familiar with any gyroplane flight instructors in Mexico.

 

[GyroChuck]

Do you mean to heavy in the front ?

Put a pencil on a flat table. Try to find a center of the pencil when you push on it with your finger So it stays straight as it's rolling along the table.

Now take that same pencil and try pushing it in a straight line by pushing at the top . You will notice you can not push the pencile straight along the table. It wants to rotate around.

This is the same situation in a gyroplane. When too much of the weight is below the thrust Line of the propeller it pushes the nose of the gyroplane down. (Just like you pushing at the top of the pencil.) That is why a horizontal stabilizer is used on the gyro to counteract the downward force.

What Vance is trying to say, is the horizontal stabilizer on an RAF is adequate as it is. But adding more weight below the thrust line the horizontal stabilizer is less effective in preventing a power pushover.

 

[ultracruiser41]

Do you mean to heavy in the front ?

The thrust line is higher than the balancing point of the craft which results in a nose over condition if not corrected with control inputs or tail design….. this condition is multiplied with the downward forces created by the angled windshield on the RAF. Faster you go…. the more the nose will tend to drop.
I sure as heck wouldn’t want floats on it😳

Fly safe 😊

 

[Vance]

This is the same situation in a gyroplane. When too much of the weight is below the thrust Line of the propeller it pushes the nose of the gyroplane down. (Just like you pushing at the top of the pencil.) That is why a horizontal stabilizer is used on the gyro to counteract the downward force.

What Vance is trying to say, is the horizontal stabilizer on an RAF is adequate as it is. But adding more weight below the thrust line the horizontal stabilizer is less effective in preventing a power pushover.

What you have written is not what I was trying to communicate Chuck.

I didn't even mention a horizontal stabilizer as an RAF was designed without one.

I do not feel that the horizontal stabilizer on the for sale RAF will stop a power push over or a bunt over unless the pilot understands the limitations of that particular aircraft.

If I was instructing in the for sale RAF I would be careful to explain the limitations of the flight envelope.

Floats will increase the thrust line offset to the center of gravity exacerbating the tendency to bunt over if not flown inside of the even more limited flight envelope.

 

[kebekwoodcraft]

An object in space rotates around the center of gravity.

When the vertical center of gravity of a gyroplane is below the thrust line of the propeller thrust makes the gyroplane want to pitch nose down.

The fantasy of the designer is the rotor thrust will stop that. In my opinion using the rotor thrust to stop a high thrust line gyroplane from bunting over is not reliable as the rotor thrust varies depending on the situation.

Floats will move the thrust line further below the thrust line exacerbating the problem.

Got it thanks

 

[GyroChuck]

Either way. What we all are trying to say is floats on an RAF is a bad idea. My apologies to Vance I did not mean to change your meaning.

 

[WaspAir]

Floats also put substantial side surface area down low, which means yaw errors can produce roll in the opposite direction. This roll issue is in addition to the pitch problems mentioned above.

 

[kebekwoodcraft]

If youre interested, Im selling my Raf. Im located in citrus county FL. 352-586-8965

1. Ive put on a new Radiator and hoses.
2. New rear tires not installed yet. Spent 300.00 with shipping.
3. New custom spark plug wires.
4. Motor runs great.
5. Guage shows 47 hrs. Its barely broke in.
6. Custom paint job
7. Heated cab.
8. Glass. Doors included.
9. All three Wheel covers included. Rear covers are not on craft right now.
10. New redrive belt
11. Strobe nav light.
12. Antenna mounted for radio.
13. Read stab included.

Reason for selling is I feel like I am to tall for comfort inside cab. Im not very knowledgeable about all the technical stuff so be patient if you have questions.

Asking $19,000.00

A bit of history incase you have questions. I was told this story by the gentleman I purchased it from. The craft was built by the owner of RAF before it was sold to the African company. He never actually registered it because he was flying it around the area where he built them. He got into some legal troubles with another company that he owned dealing with sand blasting paint off Airliners and was forced to sell the Gyro company to pay for what ever he had gotten himself into. As I understand it, he had was disposing of the sandblasting hazardous materials illegally and was sued by the EPA or something. He did not register it because I suppose he was using at the factory or location where designing was happening. In the process of selling everything, he sold this craft to a fella out west. It had around 10 hrs on it. He kept it for a few years and then that gentlman sold it to Bill Johnson who registered it and flew it briefly and suffered from heart problems which forced him to stop flying. He didnt keep up with inspections and it lost its certifications and allowed the craft to Deregister the N number. He was going to give it to his son but his son showed no interest in it because he preferred Cesna and larger craft. So he kept it in his barn and later put it up for sale many years later.

I did file and reregister the N number and it is mine, but I am waiting for the bill of sale registration of the craft purchase to go through and it should assign the N number back to the craft. The FAA has not relinked it to the craft yet likely due to back log. At the time, I filed for the N number first and after many emails with the FAA, found out I could register the craft bill of sale at the same time. So I filed that later as well. I am still waiting for the confirmation.
Since then, I have been tinkering with various things that I thought looked a little old or worn. I can say, the motor runs great, has no cracks in the frame or bent metal. She has been sitting for many years, however, before bill found out he could not fly again, he had someone in NC tune it up and install a new redrive belt and clean the carb and tune up the machine. Everything runs well. I have not flown it yet. I just got the N number registration a month or so ago and just completed the radiator change out. I was going to change the tires next. I work a lot so it takes me some time to find time to work on various things. Busy life...

Hi can you give me a email and chat from there ?

 

[Raf2000guy]

Hi can you give me a email and chat from there ? 352-586-8965 is my cell

[email protected]

 

[Raf2000guy]

Question someone ever see a RAF with floats ?

I saw one on youtube. Might not have been a RAF though. It was a while back when I stumbled on the video.

 

[Raf2000guy]

I am car mechanic for 30 years I can take care of the engine and more

The Sub engine uses car parts so you could do that easy then.

 

[querist]

The main thing I want to see from the POH is the weight information - empty weight, fuel capacity, fuel burn rate, and max takeoff weight. I have an instructor locally who owned an RAF 2000 and flew it and what looks like a dominator (a single seat "open floor plan" gyro), so he's experienced with the RAF 2000. I just want to be able to confirm that it will be able to carry both of us as we're not small guys.

The information I'm seeing online about the RAF 2000 GTX SE hints that with full fuel it can still carry up to 612 lbs, which would be more than enough unless he's over 360 lbs, which he isn't.

I don't want to buy a gyro (I'm still waiting on my medical, but he works for an AME and is going to bug the FAA for me) if my instructor and I can't fly together in it with a full tank.

 

[Andino]

The thrust line is higher than the balancing point of the craft which results in a nose over condition if not corrected with control inputs or tail design….. this condition is multiplied with the downward forces created by the angled windshield on the RAF. Faster you go…. the more the nose will tend to drop.

Correct. And, yet, the venerable RAF2000 somehow got by without a canard winglet to lift up the nose. Interesting that the Sportcopter M2 needed one. I realise that centerline thrust is difficult to achieve in pusher gyros because of the the prop/tail boom interference, which is why like the twin boom arrangement allowing a lower engine mount and reduced thrustline offset to the vertical CG.

Gyros on floats? Takeoffs would seem tricky getting on the step (which reduces AoA and thus rotor RPM). I suspect such would require considerable training.

 

[kebekwoodcraft]

The thrust line is higher than the balancing point of the craft which results in a nose over condition if not corrected with control inputs or tail design….. this condition is multiplied with the downward forces created by the angled windshield on the RAF. Faster you go…. the more the nose will tend to drop.
I sure as heck wouldn’t want floats on it😳

Fly safe 😊

Correct. And, yet, the venerable RAF2000 somehow got by without a canard winglet to lift up the nose. Interesting that the Sportcopter M2 needed one. I realise that centerline thrust is difficult to achieve in pusher gyros because of the the prop/tail boom interference, which is why like the twin boom arrangement allowing a lower engine mount and reduced thrustline offset to the vertical CG.

Gyros on floats? Takeoffs would seem tricky getting on the step (which reduces AoA and thus rotor RPM). I suspect such would require considerable training.

Pretty sure you all know JP Krucker from Ontario

 

[Andino]

Thank you for the video. A very lightweight solo gyro there, and it wasn't on the "step" for long. I think a "Dreadnought" class gyro with passenger would be much more challenging. Any videos of that?

 

[MikeBoyette]

The main thing I want to see from the POH is the weight information - empty weight, fuel capacity, fuel burn rate, and max takeoff weight. I have an instructor locally who owned an RAF 2000 and flew it and what looks like a dominator (a single seat "open floor plan" gyro), so he's experienced with the RAF 2000. I just want to be able to confirm that it will be able to carry both of us as we're not small guys.

The information I'm seeing online about the RAF 2000 GTX SE hints that with full fuel it can still carry up to 612 lbs, which would be more than enough unless he's over 360 lbs, which he isn't.

I don't want to buy a gyro (I'm still waiting on my medical, but he works for an AME and is going to bug the FAA for me) if my instructor and I can't fly together in it with a full tank.

Once again I believe someone has already told you this. When you register a machine as EAB you determine what the weight limits are. You are the manufacturer therefore the FAA inspector or the DAR have to take your word for it. Never register the machine by brand name and model name or number. An example would be my machine was listed as manufacturer: My name. Model: MB 001. Also never call it a kit. That throws it into a very complicated vicious circle similar to what you’re dealing with your physical. Also remember less is more. Don’t volunteer too much info. Answer questions asked if you. Most DAR’s are ignorant of Gyros and will most likely concentrate on things like the amount of threads outside a locknut or where safety wire is placed. They also will enjoy asking you questions to learn. These are things learned over many years and machines my father and I had inspected.