RADIO CALLS

[Vance]

I prefer doing it the way the AIM 4-1-9, h, 2, (b) recommends.

Outbound
PHRASEOLOGY-
FREDERICK UNICOM CESSNA EIGHT ZERO ONE TANGO FOXTROT (location on airport) TAXIING TO RUNWAY ONE NINER, REQUEST WIND AND TRAFFIC INFORMATION FREDERICK.
FREDERICK TRAFFIC CESSNA EIGHT ZERO ONE TANGO FOXTROT DEPARTING RUNWAY ONE NINER. “REMAINING IN THE PATTERN” OR “DEPARTING THE PATTERN TO THE (direction) (as appropriate)” FREDERICK.

Saying "closed traffic" probably sounds cooler, but I generally find that using phraseology recommended by the FAA is most understandable by the largest (biggest?) audience.

Aeronautical Information Manual - AIM

www.faa.gov

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_90-66B.pdf

Jim

This is a challenge I have when trying to understand what is in the FAR/AIM

Closed traffic is in the pilot controller glossary and remaining in the pattern is not.

CLOSED TRAFFIC− Successive operations involving takeoffs and landings or low approaches where the aircraft does not exit the traffic pattern.

As Mayfield points out remaining in the pattern is in the AIM 4-1-9. TRAFFIC ADVISORY PRACTICES AT AIRPORTS WITHOUT OPERATING CONTROL TOWERS

It is not the first time I have stopped before finding the correct answer in the FAR/AIM and as a flight instructor I should know better.

My primary flight instructor taught me “closed traffic” at a non towered airport and I simply passed it on to my unsuspecting learners.

Part of why I started this thread is to uncover incorrect radio communications that have been passed down from CFI to leaner or things that people hear a lot of cool pilots say.

My life and the life of my clients depend on using all the tools of risk mitigation well.

At AirVenture I attend every one of the seminars on radio communications for this reason.

There was recently a midair collision at Winter Haven between a float equipped Cub from Jack Brown’s Sea Plane base and an Archer that killed two flight instructors and two learners. They collided nearly nose to nose.

Jack Brown’s Sea Plane Base is a well known flight school and known to not have radios in some of their float equipped Cubs.

I don’t know that radio communication would have prevented this accident.

Based on the information I have radio communication may have helped.

 

[Loren Jones]

Closed traffic is in the pilot controller glossary and remaining in the pattern is not.

I think the explanation there is in the phrase "Pilot CONTROLLER glossary"....it's a phrase used in exchanges between pilots and controllers. "Remaining in the pattern" is used as an example of common verbiage one might use that uses common terminology for what you're doing. It's not a "phrase", as such, but just one way of conveying to others what you're planning to do, just like "Departing runway NN", which isn't in the glossary, but is regularly used and commonly understood.

 

[Vance]

I think the explanation there is in the phrase "Pilot CONTROLLER glossary"....it's a phrase used in exchanges between pilots and controllers. "Remaining in the pattern" is used as an example of common verbiage one might use that uses common terminology for what you're doing. It's not a "phrase", as such, but just one way of conveying to others what you're planning to do, just like "Departing runway NN", which isn't in the glossary, but is regularly used and commonly understood.

What I was trying to communicate Loren is that I struggle with the FAR/AIM because often the answer is not where I think it is.

I didn’t know what I didn’t know and I am grateful for the help I get from the Rotary Wing Forum to be a better instructor.

One of my aviation mentors instructed me to use incorrect terminology and I have been passing it on to my learners. My friend has been gone for four years now.

The FAA certificated me as flight instructor and I need to teach to their standards.

I incorrectly imagined that using the Pilot/Controller terminology would be correct at a non-towered and I discovered in this thread that there are some people who don’t understand the terminology I was using.

I started at a non-towered airport and was signed off for the Santa Maria Public Airport with its operating control tower with no control tower experience and ATC was clear from the beginning that it was not there job to teach me how to use the radio.

Writing stories on the Rotary Wing Forum about my flights including my radio communications helped me to get better just as this thread has helped me get better.

When I record my radio communications on my videos it helps me and my learners to get better.

I found that I unconsciously tried to match the speed of the controller I was working with and that was a mistake. If I talk too fast it is harder for people listening to understand me.

My favorite controller, now retired; had a slow southern drawl and still got everything in that the ex-military controller who talks faster than I ever could would get in.

He was the tower boss and when conditions would exceed my piloting capabilities he would say; “remember Vance, no paper work.” He hated the paperwork after a mishap at the airport.

His calm voice would help me to manage my trepidation.

 

[Loren Jones]

What I was trying to communicate Loren is that I struggle with the FAR/AIM because often the answer is not where I think it is.

I didn’t know what I didn’t know and I am grateful for the help I get from the Rotary Wing Forum to be a better instructor.

One of my aviation mentors instructed me to use incorrect terminology and I have been passing it on to my learners. My friend has been gone for four years now.

The FAA certificated me as flight instructor and I need to teach to their standards.

I incorrectly imagined that using the Pilot/Controller terminology would be correct at a non-towered and I discovered in this thread that there are some people who don’t understand the terminology I was using.

Don't beat yourself up. We all picked up things from instructors as "gospel" that ultimately turned out to be, at best, opinion....or something that was passed along to them by their instructors. It's impossible to document every conceivable situation in something like the AIM. At least you study the AIM! I suspect there are a lot of pilots who haven't looked at it since their last checkride.

Even at the airline where we have excruciatingly detailed procedures manuals for literally every phase of flight from electrical power up to shutdown and securing, there are still MANY things that fall under the "technique" category rather than as a hard and fast "rule".

In the end, we're ALL always learning. Heck, just today I learned something new from one of my learners that I was training for his transition to our larger jet. I determined long ago that I will never know everything, so just continually strive for as much knowledge as you can for as long as you can.

 

[Loren Jones]

Let me throw one more radio thing in here. I've heard some pilots, even seasoned instructors, at towered fields make the following call:

"XYZ Tower, Gyro 123."

The tower then responds with "Gyro 123, go ahead."

Personally, unless the radio is exceptionally congested, I prefer to get my request in on the first call:

"XYZ Tower, Gyro 123 at November Lane with Mike, Southwest departure."

Their response is my taxi instructions. It eliminates one unnecessary exchange between us.