RADIO CALLS

DavePA11 said:
Don’t forget some aircraft do not have radios like the old 1946 Piper Cubs if not using a handheld radio so keep looking for traffic at uncontrolled airports!

Flying out here in Colorado I had my first experience having the tower request a 360 while on downwind. Wonder what other requests I haven’t experienced? I wasn’t sure exactly what he wanted so asked to to repeat…
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Some people don't use radios at a non towered airport because it is not required by the FAA.

If I am on a left down wind at SMX and air traffic control requests I do a right 360 they expect a two minute 360 degree turn and it is usually for spacing.

They want me back on the same track I was on before I began the turn.
 
Good information, Vance, and helpful for new pilots. Mic Fright is a huge issue for virtually every student I trained (except for a former DJ!)

One thing I encourage is to think about what is really important and eliminate any unnecessary verbiage. I often hear "XYZ Tower, this is Experimental Yellow Gyro One Two Three Charlie. We are currently located ten point three miles southwest. We would like to come in and land. We have information Mike."

I teach to get it down the bare necessities that still conveys everything required: "XYZ Tower, Experimental Yellow Gyro One Two Three Charlie, ten southwest inbound with Mike" That gives them everything they need to know.

On read-backs, I hear students (and instructors) reading back things that are really informational only, but aren't really part of an ATC directive. Example: After calling for takeoff they might hear "Cherokee 123, hold short Runway Three Zero for landing traffic." They'll read back that entire response verbatim when a "Hold[ing] short Three Zero, Cherokee 123.

I would also suggest on things like "Frequency change approved" it's appropriate to simply respond "Roger, Cherokee 123." As the frequencies continue to get more congested brevity is helpful, as long as there is no loss in message clarity.

On call signs I point out that in the U.S. "November" is the assumed prefix so can be eliminated unless you're not a U.S. registered aircraft. It's three syllables that just add to congestion. Type of aircraft is more important information.

Finally, is there any way we can eradicate "Any traffic in the area please advise" from the CTAF airwaves??! If ever there was a worthless phrase to broadcast, that would be it! Announcing your intentions is all that is necessary. Anyone affected will respond accordingly without that unnecessary verbiage. /SoapBoxOff
 
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Loren Jones said:
Finally, is there any way we can eradicate "Any traffic in the area please advise" from the CTAF airwaves??! If ever there was a worthless phrase to broadcast, that would be it!
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The AIM explicitly says that phrase is not to be used under any condition, so that tells you the FAA's view on the issue.

It appears to me to be an attempt to push the see-and-avoid burden onto others (who might not even have radios) and to treat fellow airmen as if they had fight following duties. Listening on frequency and looking out the window should answer the question.


From the AIM:

g. Self-Announce Position and/or Intentions

1. General.

Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self-announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, “Traffic in the area, please advise”
is not a recognized Self−Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition.
 
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I'll add that ATC has its share of jokers too. I've been told by LAX helicopter control to "squawk a dozen" when exiting the bravo airspace. :)
 
I have used a radio simulator for VFR flight that works well on the pc with a earphone/mic combo.

www.aircraftspruce.com

Comm1 Radio Simulator - VFR | Aircraft Spruce

Comm1 Radio Simulator - VFR Learning to fly? Not flown for a few years? Talking on the radio is one of the most important, but least emphasized, skills you need to fly safely in today's busy airspace.
www.aircraftspruce.com www.aircraftspruce.com
 
nishanh said:
I'll add that ATC has its share of jokers too. I've been told by LAX helicopter control to "squawk a dozen" when exiting the bravo airspace. :)
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One time at Van Nuys Airport three C-130s were waiting for their clearance to take off on 16R. I spaced myself well behind in my Piper Pacer and performed my pre-takeoff checklist and runup. Phil Aune was controlling 16R. He keys his mike and asked me if I'm ready to go. I said affirmative, and he replied, "Pacer 61Z your cleared to taxi across the grass, cleared for an immediate takeoff 16R." As I'm climbing out, I hear Phil tell me, "Pacer 61Z turn right ten degrees to 170." Then he immediately says, "Coach 42 flight of three, cleared for takeoff, caution wake turbulence from departing Piper Pacer." I immediately turned right to heading 170 degrees and then watched each C-130 pass me on my left, wagging their wings as they passed as well as wagging my wings in return.

Wayne
 
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Loren Jones said:
Finally, is there any way we can eradicate "Any traffic in the area please advise" from the CTAF airwaves??! If ever there was a worthless phrase to broadcast, that would be it! Announcing your intentions is all that is necessary. Anyone affected will respond accordingly without that unnecessary verbiage. /SoapBoxOff
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These pilots are not smart enough to know what they are saying so avoid them in flight if possible…
 
I'm only flying out of untowered airfields so yesterday while I was flying patterns a guy came on, announced location, his ident, then stated he was saying in the pattern for the "option". Had to look it up and to me it is something than an ATC would say.

Was weird.

I diverted to the upwind side of the airfield once, did a go around once and a few simulated engine out emergency landings. Kept hearing him with his option calls.

Bobby
 
Sv.grainne said:
I'm only flying out of untowered airfields so yesterday while I was flying patterns a guy came on, announced location, his ident, then stated he was saying in the pattern for the "option". Had to look it up and to me it is something than an ATC would say.

Was weird.

I diverted to the upwind side of the airfield once, did a go around once and a few simulated engine out emergency landings. Kept hearing him with his option calls.

Bobby
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Thank you Bobby, this is exactly the sort of questions I was hoping for.

At an airport with an operating control I request the option when I don’t know if I will do a low approach, a go around, a touch and go, a stop and go or a full stop landing.

I am asking the tower to give enough room to do any of these.

It means the same thing at a non towered airport. Basically I am saying I don’t know what I am going to do so give me some room.

This is common with a low time learner because we are trying to achieve a stabilized approach and may need to abort the landing if things aren’t going well.

Sometimes when a learner makes a particularly inelegant landing we may want to make a full stop landing so we can debrief on the ground.

Remaining in the pattern means exactly what it says. I will be flying closed traffic until I announce otherwise. For me this is a substitute for my direction after departure. I prefer “closed traffic” to “remaining in the pattern”.

If there is a question I may say left closed traffic or right closed traffic.

Pilots entering the pattern would like to know what the traffic taking off is intending to do next.

At an airport with an operating control tower I would request closed traffic and would be expected to stay in the pattern until I make a different request.
 
In my view, "the option" is a clearance that a tower grants you. It is not something you announce for yourself at an uncontrolled field. It would be a bit like declaring yourself cleared to land on the CTAF.

If you have a specific intention (which you should) it helps to state it so that other pilots share your expectations, but you can always deviate if it doesn't work out (by going around, for example). Telling others, in effect, "I don't know what I want to do" is unhelpful, except maybe to make others worry that you're one of those guys who bears more than usual watchfulness.

P.S. AIM 4-3-22 Option Approach says this at the end:
This procedure will only be used at those locations with an operational control tower and will be subject to ATC approval.
 
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Vance said:
At an airport with an operating control I request the option when I don’t know if I will do a low approach, a go around, a touch and go, a stop and go or a full stop landing.

I am asking the tower to give enough room to do any of these.

It means the same thing at a non towered airport. Basically I am saying I don’t know what I am going to do so give me some room.
WaspAir said:
In my view, "option" is a clearance that a tower grants you. It is not something you announce for yourself at an uncontrolled field. It's a bit like declaring yourself cleared to land on the CTAF.

If you have a specific intention (which you should) it helps to state it so that other pilots share your expectations, but you can always deviate if it doesn't work out (by going around, for example). Telling others, in effect, "I don't know what I want to do" is unhelpful, except maybe to make others worry that you're one of those guys who bears more than usual watchfulness.

P.S. AIM 4-3-22 Option Approach says this at the end:
This procedure will only be used at those locations with an operational control tower and will be subject to ATC approval.
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I'm with JR on this one. Pilot/Controller communications have specific meanings. Those meanings don't always translate well for Pilot/Pilot communication.

Using unfamiliar lexicon muddies, and perhaps muddles, the intended provision of information.

Jim

PILOT/CONTROLLER GLOSSARY

www.faa.gov www.faa.gov
 
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I tend to agree that "option" probably isn't the best choice for non-towered CTAF. I'd probably opt for announcing a "stop and go" to give a heads up that there might be a slight delay on the runway. If I end up doing a touch & go or a full stop landing, both would be accommodated in the timeframe of a "stop and go". My two-cents. (Which might be over-valued.)
 
Loren Jones said:
I tend to agree that "option" probably isn't the best choice for non-towered CTAF. I'd probably opt for announcing a "stop and go" to give a heads up that there might be a slight delay on the runway. If I end up doing a touch & go or a full stop landing, both would be accommodated in the timeframe of a "stop and go". My two-cents. (Which might be over-valued.)
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Loren, I like your response. This was just weird, left me and others hanging as to his intentions!
 
Vance said:
Remaining in the pattern means exactly what it says. I will be flying closed traffic until I announce otherwise. For me this is a substitute for my direction after departure. I prefer “closed traffic” to “remaining in the pattern”.
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I prefer doing it the way the AIM 4-1-9, h, 2, (b) recommends.

Outbound
PHRASEOLOGY-
FREDERICK UNICOM CESSNA EIGHT ZERO ONE TANGO FOXTROT (location on airport) TAXIING TO RUNWAY ONE NINER, REQUEST WIND AND TRAFFIC INFORMATION FREDERICK.
FREDERICK TRAFFIC CESSNA EIGHT ZERO ONE TANGO FOXTROT DEPARTING RUNWAY ONE NINER. “REMAINING IN THE PATTERN” OR “DEPARTING THE PATTERN TO THE (direction) (as appropriate)” FREDERICK.

Saying "closed traffic" probably sounds cooler, but I generally find that using phraseology recommended by the FAA is most understandable by the largest (biggest?) audience.

Aeronautical Information Manual - AIM

www.faa.gov www.faa.gov


Jim
 
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Good point Jim.

This is the sort of input I was trying to stir up.

Thank you for your help.
 
Grodou said:
Interesting thread, Vance. Thanks for sharing.

Could not help to notice difference with European communication pattern:
When acknowledging clearance or giving read back, we don't start but close the msg with our call sign.

"Cleared to land, runway zero six, gyroplane fox golf echo."

Have a tendance to say European as this was standard communication on a recent trip across 4 countries.
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I am not sure it is as different here in the US as you think. When making an initial call, it makes sense to state your call sign up front.
But when in "conversation", say with a tower, it is usual for pilots here to end each communication with the shortened version (last three characters) of their call sign, as in your example.
 
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