Question for the CFIs/DPEs regarding controlled airspace endorsement with Sport Pilot

[querist]

Hello CFIs and DPEs,

After reading the FARs, I'm fairly certain that any CFI can sign me off for airport communications that would allow me to fly in controlled airspace/communicate with a towered airport once I have my sport pilot certificate, because I don't see anything there specifying that it needs to be a CFI for the specific type of aircraft and honestly there's not much difference in the communications as far as I can tell.

Can any of the CFIs or DPEs here confirm or disprove that concept? I'm pretty sure that the flight program I'm intending to use for my ASEL Sport (to allow me to get past the problem of not having a gyro for solos) will actually train me in towered communications, I want to be sure that I have a backup plan to receive the endorsement because my local airport is D airspace and a towered airport.

Thanks

 

[WaspAir]

The airspace matters, not the craft you fly into it, for your privileges as a Sport Pilot as I read 61.325. You will need to perform flight operations, so online courses won't be enough, but if you get endorsed in a fixed wing, it will carry over to other catergory/classes you add on to your privileges.

 

[querist]

The airspace matters, not the craft you fly into it, for your privileges as a Sport Pilot as I read 61.325. You will need to perform flight operations, so online courses won't be enough, but if you get endorsed in a fixed wing, it will carry over to other catergory/classes you add on to your privileges.

OK - that's what I thought. I think I read somewhere that I could do the radio stuff in another aircraft (e.g. a C172 that I would not be able to fly myself on a Sport certificate), so that's good to know. I know that if you have a private pilot and do a sport as an add-on (e.g Private ASEL then sport gyro add-on), the controlled airspace privileges from the private ASEL carry over to the sport gyro and there is no additional endorsement needed.

So I could, in theory, have a different CFI (a "regular" CFI, not a sport CFI) sign me off on the radio stuff after I earn my sport ASEL. (I know that a Sport CFI can sign you off on radio if the sport CFI has been signed off on the radio stuff, but I have much readier access to traditional fixed-wing CFIs where I live.)

Thanks!

 

[Tyger]

You'll have to get some actual radio work in before any CFI will sign you off, I think.
It's not hard, but it's a bit nerve-racking, especially talking to a tower, till you've done it more than a few times.
I know you are a guy who likes to be really prepared, so definitely learn the phonetic alphabet if you have not already done so.

 

[WaspAir]

So I could, in theory, have a different CFI (a "regular" CFI, not a sport CFI) sign me off on the radio stuff after I earn my sport ASEL.

Yes, a "regular" CFI has all the SP cfi privileges for the categories and classes on his/her certificate.

 

[Vance]

§ 61.325 How do I obtain privileges to operate a light-sport aircraft at an airport within, or in airspace within, Class B, C, and D airspace, or in other airspace with an airport having an operational control tower?

If you hold a sport pilot certificate and seek privileges to operate a light-sport aircraft in Class B, C, or D airspace, at an airport located in Class B, C, or D airspace, or to, from, through, or at an airport having an operational control tower, you must receive and log ground and flight training. The authorized instructor who provides this training must provide a logbook endorsement that certifies you are proficient in the following aeronautical knowledge areas and areas of operation:

(a) The use of radios, communications, navigation system/facilities, and radar services.

(b) Operations at airports with an operating control tower to include three takeoffs and landings to a full stop, with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern, at an airport with an operating control tower.

(c) Applicable flight rules of part 91 of this chapter for operations in Class B, C, and D airspace and air traffic control clearances.

I am trying unsuccessfully to follow along.

Why would you not have your gyroplane CFI endorse you for airspace?

Even if you are training in gyroplanes at a non-towered airport there is usually an airport nearby with an operating control tower where you can do three takeoffs and landings involving flight in the pattern.

I just did a sport pilot endorsement for 91.325 at the Santa Maria public airport (SMX) for a client who trained elsewhere.

After doing three takeoffs and landings at SMX with the pilot/tower communications we simulated class C at Santa Barbara and class B at Salt Lake City.

It was an hour of ground and an hour of flight to teach him to fly The Predator and do the air work.

 

[Tyger]

Vance is right, as usual, that it's about more than just the commo. But you should be learning about how to operate in different types of controlled airspace in any case, and as a matter of course (no pun intended), even if you do not intend to fly into them.

 

[Sv.grainne]

The radio work is easy in and of itself. Throw in additional aircraft traffic, flying, everything else!

My last training flight in a 2 place was at a non towered airfield, normally not much traffic, then stuff hit the fan. I had fixed wing AC, some on the radio, some not, trying to run me down. Wind shifted so some flying reverse patterns, CFI said let's go fly for awhile. We did what a nice relief!

 

[Tyger]

Bobby, you say radio work per se is easy, but I think that's because you had a lot of radio experience before you got into aviation, no?

 

[Sv.grainne]

Yes, military, civilian, marine, Amateur Radio. Add flying and it can (does) get crazy!

 

[querist]

§ 61.325 How do I obtain privileges to operate a light-sport aircraft at an airport within, or in airspace within, Class B, C, and D airspace, or in other airspace with an airport having an operational control tower?

If you hold a sport pilot certificate and seek privileges to operate a light-sport aircraft in Class B, C, or D airspace, at an airport located in Class B, C, or D airspace, or to, from, through, or at an airport having an operational control tower, you must receive and log ground and flight training. The authorized instructor who provides this training must provide a logbook endorsement that certifies you are proficient in the following aeronautical knowledge areas and areas of operation:

(a) The use of radios, communications, navigation system/facilities, and radar services.

(b) Operations at airports with an operating control tower to include three takeoffs and landings to a full stop, with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern, at an airport with an operating control tower.

(c) Applicable flight rules of part 91 of this chapter for operations in Class B, C, and D airspace and air traffic control clearances.

I am trying unsuccessfully to follow along.

Why would you not have your gyroplane CFI endorse you for airspace?

Even if you are training in gyroplanes at a non-towered airport there is usually an airport nearby with an operating control tower where you can do three takeoffs and landings involving flight in the pattern.

I just did a sport pilot endorsement for 91.325 at the Santa Maria public airport (SMX) for a client who trained elsewhere.

After doing three takeoffs and landings at SMX with the pilot/tower communications we simulated class C at Santa Barbara and class B at Salt Lake City.

It was an hour of ground and an hour of flight to teach him to fly The Predator and do the air work.

I would THINK that the whole B, C, D airspace thing would be included in the training, but the simple fact that it is a separate endorsement made me wonder about it. There is no separate endorsement for a Private Pilot to fly in such airspaces.

And, I'm considering getting my ASEL Sport pilot first so I can overcome the issue of not being able to rent a gyro for solos. If I get my fixed wing first, I can then do an add-on for gyros without soloing in the gyro. I'm just trying to understand my options.

I will admit that I'm embarrassed that I did not think that the question would be so plainly answered in the FAR.

 

[querist]

You'll have to get some actual radio work in before any CFI will sign you off, I think.
It's not hard, but it's a bit nerve-racking, especially talking to a tower, till you've done it more than a few times.
I know you are a guy who likes to be really prepared, so definitely learn the phonetic alphabet if you have not already done so.

I already know it... amateur radio operator and examiner.

 

[chrisk]

The radio work is easy in and of itself. Throw in additional aircraft traffic, flying, everything else!

It's all easy until you hear the controller say something like "cleared for the option, make right closed traffic" or "land and hold short". Or taxi via Alpha1,Charlie, Alpha, Delta, terminal ramp, Fox Trot, Lima, Cross 29. Or your are cleared as number 2 to land, but you already see two planes on final. --Just remember if you don't understand, you can always ask for clarification or a progressive taxi.