Prospective Cavalon Owner and Career Helicopter Pilot Needs Advice on Buying/Options

[Pavegeno]

Thanks to many of you for reaching out point to point with some insights and sharing your experiences and helping to educate me.

Greatly appreciate Rob Lutz from Gyro Rev spending some time on the phone with me as well.

Clearly a great community of passionate aviators. Looking forward to my first flight!

 

[Gyro Revolution]

You're welcome Gene.

There's no such thing as a perfect aircraft.

Some very good points made on this thread.

Each aircraft has its compromises (albeit some have more than others).

Pick the one within budget that has the fewest compromises for your mission!

 

[Greg Vos]

My advice is to ignore all of the above and go buy a single place first and fly the hell out of it for 100 hours. It's FUN!! THEN go get a 2-place. I bet you won't sell the single place machine!

2-place gyros are for going somewhere or giving rides, but not nearly as much fun as singles.

Anyone who has never flown a single place gyro doesn't really know what gyros are capable of in my opinion.

Eric

This is like saying go buy a KTM Oxbow ( and it’s brilliant for what it is) when your in the market for a Bentley ....

 

[Rainman]

The fly-ins upcoming in the Southeast at Carolina Barnstormers and /or Wrens in Georgia may allow an opportunity to see several options . Check the events section of this forum. Ray

 

[ultracruiser41]

Yes... Hi Gene..... My next Carolina Barnstormers Fly In is October 23-25. Consider this an official invite to join us!!
We’ll have lots of different gyro models there and I can give ya some stick time in a Cavalon.... and several others.
lots of friends..... food and fun.... not to mention....flying!!!
Barry

 

[Pavegeno]

Yes... Hi Gene..... My next Carolina Barnstormers Fly In is October 23-25. Consider this an official invite to join us!!
We’ll have lots of different gyro models there and I can give ya some stick time in a Cavalon.... and several others.
lots of friends..... food and fun.... not to mention....flying!!!
Barry

Thank you Barry!

 

[Abid]

Yes... Hi Gene..... My next Carolina Barnstormers Fly In is October 23-25. Consider this an official invite to join us!!
We’ll have lots of different gyro models there and I can give ya some stick time in a Cavalon.... and several others.
lots of friends..... food and fun.... not to mention....flying!!!
Barry

Impressive yellow gyro Barry

 

[Smack]

Impressive yellow gyro Barry

Would love to see him 'balancing on the mains' with that one...

 

[ultracruiser41]

Hey Abid.......it’s been a while since you’ve been over to our neck of the woods......hope you can join us next month!

 

[DavePA11]

So Pav - What did you decide?

 

[Pavegeno]

So Pav - What did you decide?

Dave, still a ways out from a decision. I've talked to a few great folks about the Cavalon and the M24 and gyro flight training. I want to fly both and get a feel and then decide. The FAA certified option of the Cavalon is important to me (and my wife!), but if the M24 is a better all around craft I could see going the experimental route. I am planning to knock out the add-on to my Commercial-Rotorcraft next. I should know then if I really want to pursue ownership. I also need to look at what companies will insure gyros and what the premiums are. I have a good friend from the USAF that runs an avionics and A&P repair facility for airplanes, helicopters, and gliders nearby and is willing to do maintenance so that's a big help. He is about a two hour flight away. I'm on the list at the local airport for a hangar and that list is about 18-24 months long so that gives me some time to make a decision and to see if the aircraft maintenance operation on the airport would work on a gyro.

 

[XXavier]

I have an M24, and happy with it, but for long flights it's too noisy...

 

[wolfy]

Dave, still a ways out from a decision. I've talked to a few great folks about the Cavalon and the M24 and gyro flight training. I want to fly both and get a feel and then decide. The FAA certified option of the Cavalon is important to me (and my wife!), but if the M24 is a better all around craft I could see going the experimental route. I am planning to knock out the add-on to my Commercial-Rotorcraft next. I should know then if I really want to pursue ownership. I also need to look at what companies will insure gyros and what the premiums are. I have a good friend from the USAF that runs an avionics and A&P repair facility for airplanes, helicopters, and gliders nearby and is willing to do maintenance so that's a big help. He is about a two hour flight away. I'm on the list at the local airport for a hangar and that list is about 18-24 months long so that gives me some time to make a decision and to see if the aircraft maintenance operation on the airport would work on a gyro.

Very smart way of moving forward mate.

wolfy

 

[Tyger]

I'm on the list at the local airport for a hangar and that list is about 18-24 months long so that gives me some time to make a decision and to see if the aircraft maintenance operation on the airport would work on a gyro.

At airports that have "T" hangars, there is often a "half-T" at each end that is too small for an airplane but fits a gyro nicely. At my airport, the owner actually gave me a discount on the rent because the space was smaller and he knew he wouldn't be renting it to any airplane. It's definitely worth investigating, especially if there's a long waitlist for a standard spot.

 

[DavePA11]

Pav - I don’t think there is a difference in the Cavalon that is certified vs Cavalon that is not certified. If there is a difference other than paper work than I would be interested in learning more. Would be interested in what you find out for insurance too. Sounds exciting. Are there any experimental helicopters you would be interested in if the gyro idea falls through? I’d go with the Cavalon, but wish they would change the nose to castering and add differential brakes. Then it would be perfect.

Xavier - This was one of the reasons I decided to sell my last gyro was due to noise. Even purchased helmet and added noise suppression foam to help, and it was still loud as can be sitting right next to the engine. I was thinking the MTO would be quieter since they have to meet stricter sound requirements in Europe. Cavalon must be quieter inside? I know the MTO is quieter than some of the other open gyros.

 

[GyrOZprey]

The insurance for gyros ...will take your breath away ...we are down to one underwriter willing to insure gyros -due to far too many claims in the last couple of years!
We are losing many great CFI's ...who now only afford to train you in YOUR machine ( when you decide to do this gyro flying thing ... you may need buy/build your machine to train/solo in!)

I fear we are losing many opportunities for increasing our gyro-pilot membership. Catch 22 .... a LOT of $'s to buy a modern 2 place ( to get training) ...at risk with low time student pilots .....higher insurance costs!

At present ....it seems like a prospective buyer/pilot will need to get multiple intro-demo flights with several owners/dealers/CFi's ...decide on best machine for THEM ... buy/build ...try to get insurance (with the CFI they will train with named as approved pilot) ... then proceed and hope the PRA group insurance plan will be in effect by time they are solo!

The PRA plan hopes to halve the current insurance for hull coverage ... by sharing the risk with the underwriter they are working with.
The PRA will create a $ pool to cover hull claims ... the insurer handle the liability side.
The covered pilots will need to take an annual proficiency test ....both in simulator and real flight with CFI ... currently Dr Raul Salazer is developing the annual testing regime ...to be presented & approved by the PRA & insurance.

I applaud John Rountree's efforts to bring this dream for gyro insurance to be a PRA membership benefit ( and increase membership & participation in PRA) ... to fruition! ..... this can only work ...if we unite and work together with the gyro-pilots OWN organization!
please offer your skill set to help this effort along - if you have contacts & skills to assist !

 

[Tyger]

Xavier - This was one of the reasons I decided to sell my last gyro was due to noise. Even purchased helmet and added noise suppression foam to help, and it was still loud as can be sitting right next to the engine. I was thinking the MTO would be quieter since they have to meet stricter sound requirements in Europe. Cavalon must be quieter inside? I know the MTO is quieter than some of the other open gyros.

Dave, on a tandem like mine, I find the front seat is MUCH quieter than the rear. That extra meter or so away from the engine makes a lot of difference. Also, I know Magni does make a quiet configuration, for places where overall noise is an issue.

 

[DavePA11]

Xavier - Can you update your M24 with the noise reduction configuration Tyger is referring too?

I have only been buying the fixed wing aircraft that are built with metal frame rather than the fiberglass fuselage since it’s possible to repair the fixed wing aircraft built with metal frames at more reasonable cost. The fiberglass ones are not easily fixed... Problem with gyros if you tip them with rotor spinning it’s almost Like buying new to repair it. Wonder if the manufactures could add anti-tip rods or extend the landing gear out wider to make less likely to tip in some of these scenarios? Sportcopter’s design is less likely to tip with the castering front wheel and suspension.

 

[XXavier]

Xavier - Can you update your M24 with the noise reduction configuration Tyger is referring too?

I have only been buying the fixed wing aircraft that are built with metal frame rather than the fiberglass fuselage since it’s possible to repair the fixed wing aircraft built with metal frames at more reasonable cost. The fiberglass ones are not easily fixed... Problem with gyros if you tip them with rotor spinning it’s almost Like buying new to repair it. Wonder if the manufactures could add anti-tip rods or extend the landing gear out wider to make less likely to tip in some of these scenarios? Sportcopter’s design is less likely to tip with the castering front wheel and suspension.

No idea that it existed... I'll ask around...

 

[NJpilot]

Dave, on a tandem like mine, I find the front seat is MUCH quieter than the rear. That extra meter or so away from the engine makes a lot of difference. Also, I know Magni does make a quiet configuration, for places where overall noise is an issue.

Magni was showing a teaser video at the 2019 Aero Show in Germany of their upcoming M25 enclosed two place. I think they were planning on unveiling in at Sun&Fun 2020 but Covid scuttled that. Anybody see or hear more about the M25? I'm curious whether it has an upward hinged canopy or two side doors. I prefer side doors.

Forgot to add this is a tandem.