Prospective Cavalon Owner and Career Helicopter Pilot Needs Advice on Buying/Options

[Pavegeno]

Having flown them all and being instructor rated on all, I like the simple maintenance on the M24 and the Zen / xenon, the view from the Xenon and it’s bigger cabin for me makes it a winner For me.

I find the Cavalon a bit cozy,.. as I do the M24, the Cavalon is similar in construction to the Polish ships so it’s proven that a Monocok construction is safe. I don’t like the pre rotator maintenance or service on the Cavelon I don’t like the cables on the controls... Magni and Xenon / Argo / Trendak offer pull push rods and we all know they are bullet proof.

I don’t like the over engine rads we see on the Auto Gyro models while I have no evidence that they are problematic, the 915 still needs to prove its provenance ..

I have flown a 915 gyros and that extra power is very welcome but .... before I put my cash there let’s see a few high hour 915’s and let them prove provinence?
As a helicopter pilot myself I find the view through the feet of the Polish gyros very welcome, if I may add please fly them all before you purchase.


The best resale ( if it’s a factor) will be the M24 IMO
The polish machines are like Lexus ...fantastic but no resale value .... but I I never purchase anything for its resale value, rather just it’s value

Thank you.

 

[ventana7]

I would echo Greg’s comments. Having flown them all I find the Xenon’s light stick forces make flying it by far more comfortable and relaxing.

 

[DavePA11]

Dave, did you have a Rotax mech you liked in/near MA/CT?

Yes - I’ll look up his name. First name was Mitch and he works at the Plymouth airport.

 

[DavePA11]

I find the Cavalon a bit cozy,.. as I do the M24, the Cavalon is similar in construction to the Polish ships so it’s proven that a Monocok construction is safe. I don’t like the pre rotator maintenance or service on the Cavelon I don’t like the cables on the controls... Magni and Xenon / Argo / Trendak offer pull push rods and we all know they are bullet proof.

Greg - Who is the current manufacture of the Xenon now in Florida? Do you have there website link?

One thing nice about the M24 is the pilot seat is slightly in front of the passenger seat so there is some separation in shoulders when passenger is on board.

Does the Cavalon have this nice feature too? How does someone verify the assembly on the Cavalon to prevent what happened to Chris?

 

[DavePA11]

Ventana - Are you getting a lot of smoke too? Can't even see Mt Evans any more from here in Evergreen with the smoke from all the fires north west of here. Wow. When can I fly up and give you a flight in the Husky so I can get a ride in your Xenon?

 

[Steve_UK]

your options includes

Aviation Artur Trendak in Poland

https://www.trendak.eu/en/

Air Gyro in USA

https://www.airgyro.com/

Manufaktura Lotnicza Wronowski in Poland



Fly Argo in Poland

https://flyargo.aero/en/

Enjoy...........................

 

[Greg Vos]

I am not sure but I find this man very helpful

 

[DavePA11]

Tyger - Mitch Buckley is the A&P with Alpha One at the Plymouth Airport in MA. Alpha One at first would not do the inspection of the Rotax 912 in my Sportcopter M912 gyro until they verified with their insurance company that they could work on the Rotax engine specifically in a gyroplane. Took months for the review, but the insurance company finally game back and told Alpha One they would allow it. Just FYI. Seems insurance is major factor for the shops too.

 

[Greg Vos]

Greg - Who is the current manufacture of the Xenon now in Florida? Do you have there website link?

One thing nice about the M24 is the pilot seat is slightly in front of the passenger seat so there is some separation in shoulders when passenger is on board.

Does the Cavalon have this nice feature too? How does someone verify the assembly on the Cavalon to prevent what happened to Chris?

The M24 seating is IMO not great, you will find the cabin of any xenon way better than Cavelon or M24 it’s bigger than a C172 and surprisingly fast and agile for its whale like tub

so you will not need to stager the seating arrangement... im Not a big guy but I do Fly big guys and our shoulders don’t touch

 

[Greg Vos]

The gym fanatic with the stripe T shirt was 127kg and his shoulders did not touch mine while we were flying he would not fit in Cavelon the tall guy our local head of metro police is 6ft 8 to give you some idea

 

[ventana7]

Ventana - Are you getting a lot of smoke too? Can't even see Mt Evans any more from here in Evergreen with the smoke from all the fires north west of here. Wow. When can I fly up and give you a flight in the Husky so I can get a ride in your Xenon?

View attachment 1148231

Yes the vis here is maybe 1 mile. I went mountain biking this morning when it just started getting bad, by the time I finished I felt like I’d smoked 2 packs of camel cigs.

 

[Tyger]

Alpha One at first would not do the inspection of the Rotax 912 in my Sportcopter M912 gyro until they verified with their insurance company that they could work on the Rotax engine specifically in a gyroplane. Took months for the review, but the insurance company finally game back and told Alpha One they would allow it. Just FYI.

That sounds a bit silly, since they're just inspecting the engine and are fully qualified to do so... maybe they were thinking it was like a helicopter??

Last year, I called a guy in NJ that Rotax had on their list of US repair shops. But when I spoke to him on the phone he said,
"I took a Rotax course, but I don't really do any work on Rotaxes; I don't know why they listed me."

 

[NJpilot]

I would echo Greg’s comments. Having flown them all I find the Xenon’s light stick forces make flying it by far more comfortable and relaxing.

Interesting... wouldn't a light stick require more attention to maintain course? James Ketchell, who flew a Magni M16 'round the world, commented that the light stick on a DTA J-Ro would have been exhausting compared to the tighter M16 with a more set and forget stick force.

 

[ventana7]

Interesting... wouldn't a light stick require more attention to maintain course? James Ketchell, who flew a Magni M16 'round the world, commented that the light stick on a DTA J-Ro would have been exhausting compared to the tighter M16 with a more set and forget stick force.

You bring up an interesting point. Auto-gyro and Magni to me fly similarly, which I would describe as significant stick shake and significant force required to initiate a turn, but as you describe, less attention to maintain course. James Ketchell and Norman Surplus flew these two types of gyros around the world.

I took my last BFR in a Cavalon and my arm was exhausted after 1.5 hours. I felt the same flying a Calidus and Magni. Both the Cavalon and Calidus CFIs said the gyros I flew were typical of the brand. Of course in my BFR I was constantly maneuvering the machine, perhaps hours of straight and level my arm, while experiencing lots of vibration would not get as tired as constant maneuvering.

My Xenon by contrast is fingertip pressure to fly but does need more constant attention to maintain course. So while I guess it requires more frequent nudges, your arm is not getting any sort of shaking or workout. I’ve flown it across the US and round trip from Colorado to Oshkosh.

Perhaps the best of both worlds in this one regards was my Sparrowhawk which I flew to all 48 states in the US logging over 10,000 miles. It was both light fingertip pressure to fly and very stable. It was common for me to leave my hands off the stick for 3 or 4 minutes while I opened my backpack to pull out a sandwich and drink or took pictures. Very stable and fun to fly, but lacking the power and refinements of the modern Rotax powered gyros.


Hope this helps.
Rob

 

[Vance]

The M24 seating is IMO not great, you will find the cabin of any xenon way better than Cavelon or M24 it’s bigger than a C172 and surprisingly fast and agile for its whale like tub

so you will not need to stager the seating arrangement... im Not a big guy but I do Fly big guys and our shoulders don’t touch

I find my helmet hits the side in any of the Xenon based gyroplanes.

I have to fly with my head cocked.

I am five feet ten inches tall.

It may be there is a way to adjust the seat so it is not a problem.

I don’t have that problem in a Cavalon.

In a Magni it is close without touching.

 

[Greg Vos]

I find my helmet hits the side in any of the Xenon based gyroplanes.

I have to fly with my head cocked.

I am five feet ten inches tall.

It may be there is a way to adjust the seat so it is not a problem.

I don’t have that problem in a Cavalon.

In a Magni it is close without touching.

This is interesting I am 5ft8 And I don’t find my head hitting the cabin, but then I don’t fly with a helmet, the 24 is definitely a bit smaller, in the cavalon you sit deeper for want if an explanation but the view is not as good, all three are superb aircraft IMO.

I am not a fan of some of the Cavalon maintenance if I really want to be fussy, that said of the three it’s the most luxurious of the three IMO this in not fact it’s just my take on it.
the 24 has a complex front wheel cable set up and for me the cabin is very small

there is a pic on some web site with Cavalon cabin superimposed over the xenon/ Argo,,,And one can see easily in this diagram the cockpit sise
is BMW, better than Audi? Are they any better than a Mercedes? All three superb gyroplanes and I think it will come down to personal taste and preference.

 

[Vance]

I wear a Gentex SPH 5 helmet in most of the gyroplanes I fly.

It is a helicopter helmet with big ear cups for maximum passive noise reduction.
I add active noise reduction.

Having had a traumatic brain injury I am inclined to use a helmet open or closed cockpit.

Brain injuries tend to be cumulative.

 

[Greg Vos]

I wear a Gentex SPH 5 helmet in most of the gyroplanes I fly.

It is a helicopter helmet with big ear cups for maximum passive noise reduction.
I add active noise reduction.

Having had a traumatic brain injury I am inclined to use a helmet open or closed cockpit.

Brain injuries tend to be cumulative.

This makes sense
not wanting to thread drift so if your up for it a pm ? How did you get through the medical assessment? Every year when medicals come up I get a bit sensitive because here they pull your flight medical for the smallest thing.

 

[Eric S]

My advice is to ignore all of the above and go buy a single place first and fly the hell out of it for 100 hours. It's FUN!! THEN go get a 2-place. I bet you won't sell the single place machine!

2-place gyros are for going somewhere or giving rides, but not nearly as much fun as singles.

Anyone who has never flown a single place gyro doesn't really know what gyros are capable of in my opinion.

Eric

 

[DavePA11]

The single seat Sportcopter M912 is a blast. Can do amazing flying in it, but not great for going places so agree.