Project X-6 - twin engine gyro

Smack

Re-member?
Finally !

Finally !

Thanks for posting that, Steve.
I am very anxious to read the flight characteristics report, specifically single-engine.
Is that a wider blade chord or just the photo perspective?
Hmmmmmm, the canopy looks great, but couldn't they have, at least, spray-painted that fuselage? :)

Brian
 

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
I hope they have fun with it, but given the choice, I'd always take a bigger more powerful single over two smaller powerplants, for maintenance, weight, simplicity, reliability, etc.
 

C. Beaty

Gold Supporter
Bensen once had a 4-engine gyro; 4 large gocart engines as I recall.

There have been several gyros with twin Rotax 503s, but I never understood the rationale.
 

phantom

Newbie
I don't remember the bensen 4 engine gyro but I did build a loose copy of his 6 engine gyro that worked well with any two engines turned off.
Norm
 

C. Beaty

Gold Supporter
You may be right, Norm; perhaps Bensen only had a 6 engine gyro. It’s been a long time ago and my memory is pretty foggy about all the stuff that he experimented with.

Didn’t he also have a twin with a pair of direct drive Canadian Kohler snowmobile engines? Or maybe it was a pair of Kiekhaefer (Mercury) snowmobile engines.
 
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phantom

Newbie
You are correct chuck, he used two Kiekhaefer inline air cooled 535cc twin cylinder engines turning 50 inch props with 2 to 1 redrives, the engines were mounted as close to centre as possible by overlapping the props so that the tip of one prop almost touched the gearbox of the other one, he said it was the best power system that he ever used on a gyro and planed to offer it as a replacement for the Mac but Carl Kiekaefer was advised by his lawyers not to sell the engines to bensen aircraft for liability reasons.
Norm
 

kmtck

Newbie
how do you certify twin engine gyro

how do you certify twin engine gyro

This looks nice but how do you get this into US when there isno multiengine rated gyro or CFIs?

I read the thread here: http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21946 on twin/multi engine gyro sign off.

I would appreciate it if someone can shine light on what and how one goes about to built and signoff a twin engine+ two/three seater experimental gyro in the US. I understand the LSA doesnt allow two engines and two props but what are the restrictions outside of it?

Thanks.
 

Steve_UK

Active Member
I suspect it will not be certified in the USA.
Other markets exist on this planet.
They have already sold their three seater in low volumes. Examples registered and flying in Slovakia and China.
 

okikuma

Member
I certainly would not want to fly a widely spaced, twin engine gyro like that with "one turning" and the "other windmilling" right at take off.

What would be the Vmca (minimum control airspeed, in the air), Vmcg (minimum control speed on the ground), and Vmcl (minimum control airspeed when landing)?

What ever happened to Jack Craft's twin engine Gyro 200?

Wayne

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDl1V8mLJu8
 

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kmtck

Newbie
How did the above get it's airworthiness certificate and in which class. Have the rules changed now that require a twin sign off?
 

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
You can build a twelve engine engine gyro if you like, and register it as Experimental Amateur Built. It won't qualify for sport pilot operations, but if you have a Private rating or higher, you can fly it.

For rotorcraft, the number of engines is irrelevant to pilot licensing. For example, you can fly a helicopter with 1, 2, or 3 engines all on the same rating. There is no "multi" rating corresponding to that for airplanes.
 

kmtck

Newbie
You can build a twelve engine engine gyro if you like, and register it as Experimental Amateur Built. It won't qualify for sport pilot operations, but if you have a Private rating or higher, you can fly it.

For rotorcraft, the number of engines is irrelevant to pilot licensing. For example, you can fly a helicopter with 1, 2, or 3 engines all on the same rating. There is no "multi" rating corresponding to that for airplanes.
Thanks for the info.... but I need more clarity. If I build a 4 seater gyro with twin engines and still fly it as E-AB with a Private rating the FAA doesnt care as I am flying solo. Now, if I go ahead and carry passengers in it but have no multi engine rating as required in a fixed wing. What am I doing to get in trouble with the authorities?


I do understand the multi engine helicopter scene but gyro's are very different and I am still learning(slowly).....

I know I can fly solo with just a PPL in a multi engine fixed wing EAB without having the type certificate endorsement but cant fly with one/more passengers.

Please shine some light!
 

Fly Army

Member
As long as it is properly placarded as EXPERIMENTAL with the appropriate pax warning it shouldn't matter how many engines you put on it. IIRC

The Lockwood AirCam is a twin and the vast minority of its pilots do not have Multi-engine ratings and they carry passengers around all the time.
 
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Fly Army

Member
I certainly would not want to fly a widely spaced, twin engine gyro like that with "one turning" and the "other windmilling" right at take off.

What would be the Vmca (minimum control airspeed, in the air), Vmcg (minimum control speed on the ground), and Vmcl (minimum control airspeed when landing)?

What ever happened to Jack Craft's twin engine Gyro 200?

Wayne

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDl1V8mLJu8
You think those are widely spaced ? They look about as close to the centerline as you can get to me. They are much closer than any GA twin I can think of. Look at the Velocity Twin - it has no VMC roll at all. Even better if these are counter rotating I would think.
 

eddie

RAF, turbo subaru 230hp
worring about the spacing on the engines is fixed wing thinking,I don't think it would be

as much of a problem as you think.I think a big rudder would be a must though.





best regards,
 

phantom

Newbie
I would call the craft gyro a widely spaced twin, when I built a side by side twin I used overlapping props like Bensen did but if one engine failed the good one had to be shut down to keep from spinning, the push pull gyro with 503 s could not fly on one engine but you could extend the glide a long way.
Norm
 

Steve_UK

Active Member
I would imagine this machine will be powered by twin rotax 912 or 914 engines. As reliable as you can get.
 

kmtck

Newbie
So maybe just like there other machines, this one might come to the US as a kit build E-AB assembled and will allow you to carry the whole family :)
 

eddie

RAF, turbo subaru 230hp
Thanks for the info norman,count me out on having a twin gyro.If they spin that close

together think what a ride it would be with the engines far apart.



Best regards,
 
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