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Abid

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Messages
6,059
Location
Tampa, FL
Aircraft
AR-1
Total Flight Time
4000+ 560 gyroplanes. Sport CFI Gyro and Trikes. Pilot Airplane
Compare the average home being built in the 1950s-60s with the average home being built today. Today's would have been considered mansions back then. I think far too many people make themselves "house-poor" at the expense of leisure time to enjoy other hobbies/pursuits.

You are right about that. European middle and even upper middle class has much simpler and smaller houses but then they do a lot more things with their life.
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Staff member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
18,197
Location
Santa Maria, California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2600+ in rotorcraft
Lol I thought you built a software company!
Santa Maria Software AKA Counterman is software to run a motorcycle shop for people who are not good with computers.

It is still going after 36 years and I am still not good with computers.

I hire computer expertise and my number one support kid and my programmer have been with me for more than 20 years.
 

Aaron R

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
72
Location
Saint Inigoes, MD
Organized representation before the FAA seems uber-valuable as well
I think there was recent discussion that MOSAIC could be improved if the sport pilot limitation to flying gyros with two-blade semi-rigid teetering rotors is removed. Has the PRA submitted a public comment on this? I think the FAA will take the feedback more seriously if it comes from a relevant association than if it comes only from individuals.

Another thought is, sometimes industry associations cooperate on these things. They compare notes before the close of the comment period (which in this case is not far off) and they support one another either by echoing comments, or by joint letters on the issues they all agree on.

So for example, the PRA could not only submit it's own comment, but could also approach other organizations (e.g. - EAA, LAMA) and explain why it is commenting, and ask them to consider including a similar comment in their response.
 

GyroRon

Former Gyro know it all
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
16,862
Location
Fort Mill South Carolina
Aircraft
Vans RV4 / Dominator 582 Ultrawhite
Total Flight Time
ALOT
Compare the average home being built in the 1950s-60s with the average home being built today. Today's would have been considered mansions back then. I think far too many people make themselves "house-poor" at the expense of leisure time to enjoy other hobbies/pursuits.
Your spot on.
 

Sv.grainne

Super Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2020
Messages
2,136
Location
Kerrville, Texas
Aircraft
Aviomania, G1sB Genesis
Tom and I were talking about that this morning. Cost of a car and cost of a kit then vs now. Not so much of a difference.

Car $30k and up. My kit was about $32k.
 

Gyro Technic

Manufacturer
Joined
Jan 4, 2018
Messages
145
Location
Kasota, MN
Aircraft
Gyro Technic GT-VX1 & GT-VX2
The PRA is not needed in today's world.

The struggle is trying to think of and implement a purpose for the PRA in today's world.

Imagine there was no internet, no online forums, no text messaging, no facebook... THEN there would be a reason and purpose for a PRA, to publish information and news and be a way for us to be under one roof so to speak. That was what the PRA was back in the day.

For some reason we continue to get people to volunteer their time and efforts to TRY to keep some kind of flame burning but the writing has been on the wall for years now... It isn't needed.

I've often thought about, what if dues were dirt cheap... Would everyone that has any involvement with gyroplanes send in dues and maintain membership, Would that keep PRA alive? And even then I have to ask myself what would be the motivation for me to send in even $10-20 a year to be a member?
Ron,
Are there some organizations / groups that you are passionate about that I don't participate in that I could spend my time trying to diminish and talk down?
There are many of us that DO see the value of the PRA and what it can and should be for all in our sport!

Writing on the wall??? Maybe.... But for now, please put down the spray paint can. It's not helping.
Denis
 

GyroRon

Former Gyro know it all
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
16,862
Location
Fort Mill South Carolina
Aircraft
Vans RV4 / Dominator 582 Ultrawhite
Total Flight Time
ALOT
Ron,
Are there some organizations / groups that you are passionate about that I don't participate in that I could spend my time trying to diminish and talk down?
There are many of us that DO see the value of the PRA and what it can and should be for all in our sport!

Writing on the wall??? Maybe.... But for now, please put down the spray paint can. It's not helping.
Denis
Denis, I have been involved with this sport since 2001. I was a PRA chapter president for several years. If you go back through my posts far enough you will see that I was as passionate as anyone, in defense of the PRA.

I know you have been around the PRA for many years as well, and I know that you are one of the rare breeds of people that actually DO things and not just talk about doing things. I'm sorry if you take my opinions as an attack or whatever, I can understand how my comments would sting.

I will still hold true to my opinion though that the PRA in it's peak, It's purpose was to spread information and knowledge to people who were interested in amateur built rotorcraft through the magazine and through it's network of chapters and via it's annual convention. If you decided you wanted to possibly build and fly a gyroplane back in the 70's or 80's or even 90's... You were really on your own if you didn't join the PRA and or also join a local chapter. These days you do not need to be a part of any local chapters or part of any national organization to get the info and comradery a person getting into gyros needs thanks to the internet. The drop in PRA membership shows this to be true. The challenge for the PRA and the people that are still passionate about the PRA is to figure out a way for PRA membership to be of value to people in ways beyond sharing information and networking... And then implementing those ideas.
 

Doug Riley

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
6,923
While kicking around a new mission for the PRA, it's helpful to review history. It's had different missions over the decades since I joined at age 13.

Igor Bensen set it up in large part to promote his products. For at least the first 10 years, the magazine gave almost zero coverage to other gyro brands. It often repeated the "keep it Bensen-stock for safety" message. In return, Igor did write technical articles that few others had the knowledge to produce. As time went on, Igor's technical articles tended toward high-tech aerospace gadgetry with little relevance to us bug-toothed gyronauts, though.

Igor also apparently subsidized the magazine out of his company's funds. The magazine looked a lot slicker than you might expect, given its circulation. The mag had a paid professional editor, Mike Stockhill, whose next job was editor of Mother Jones, a big, nationally-distributed newsstand mag.

During Igor's tenure, there was some interesting engineering thinking going on in the shadows. Though we never saw it in the PRA mag, there was a spirited discussion about the need for real horizontal stabs -- this, in the late 60's-early 70's. The word didn't really get around until some 30 years later.

Bottom line: PRA was quite Bensen-biased at that time.

The incident I mentioned earlier about Don Farrington, in PRA's name, persuading the FAA to drop the gyroglider training regulation is another case of bias. Maybe the members would have agreed to the change, but the point is that we were not asked. We were presented with a done deed.

Although not a PRA venture, the Ask First Society was another infamous case of brand bias in privately rating CFI's. Heaven forbid THAT happen again.

The point of all this? If PRA goes on, it would be wise to pick both a structure and a mission that are not so easily warped into a promotional gimmick, or a way to trash one's competition. PRA as a sponsor of flyins could be a bias-resistant mission. CFI rating? Yikes.
 
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