Populated Ares

TJPlayaman

Newbie
Joined
Jul 14, 2019
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Location
Millville NJ
I live in South Jersey but there are lots of room but I wanted to fly to Benson Florida fly can that be done in a 1seater
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
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Nipomo,California
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Givens Predator
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Could you please tell me what are
The FAA does not define congested areas or densely populated areas in the Federal Aviation Regulations or the Aeronautical Information Manual.

From the current form for operating limitations:

"5. Except for takeoffs and landings, this aircraft may not be operated over densely populated areas or in congested airways."

"6. This aircraft is prohibited from operating in congested airways or over densely populated areas unless directed by air traffic control, or unless sufficient altitude is maintained to effect a safe emergency landing in the event of a power unit failure, without hazard to persons or property on the ground."

"NOTE: This limitation is applicable to the aircraft after it has satisfactorily completed all requirements for phase I flight testing, has the appropriate endorsement in the aircraft logbook and maintenance records, and is operating in phase II."

In my opinion; the way that reads is after phase one you can fly anywhere you want with an experimental amateur built aircraft with sufficient altitude and following the rest of the airspace limitations for how your aircraft is configured.

If you hurt someone of damage property it is up to you to prove you had sufficient altitude to effect a safe emergency landing.

You are going to need to understand airspace regulations before your CFI can sign you off for solo flight or you can pass the knowledge test for any aviation certificate.

Your flight instructor will cover this at length in flight planning.
 
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Tyger

Active Member
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Germantown, NY
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Magni M16
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Most congested areas are marked in yellow on the FAA sectional maps (your area is on the Washington sectional).
When you refer to "the bay", do you mean Delaware Bay?
Something to consider: Millville is within the Mode C veil of Philadelphia (the Millville airport is just outside). You would need to be equipped with a Mode C transponder (and, as of next January, with ADS-B Out) to operate immediately to your north. Without that, you would definitely have to fly over some decent-sized bodies of water to get to Florida, staying out of big-airport airspace on your way south.
 

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
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Colorado front range
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Bell 47G-3B-1 / A&S 18A / Phoebus C, etc.
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stopped caring at 1000
Just for clarity here, the yellow markings on the sectional charts are intended to suggest the shape of developed areas as they appear at night from ground-based artificial lights, such as street lights, signs, road traffic, lights in buildings, and other typical urban sources, to help you identify what you are seeing from the air. If it's in yellow, it's safe to assume it is congested, but never assume the opposite. It can be congested without any yellow chart markings. The case law shows that the FAA can be very aggressive in deeming something to be congested, and one can be surprised at what they would include.

Here's a bit of cautionary tale on this topic from the AOPA:

 

Tyger

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It seems, to paraphrase Justice Potter Stewart, the FAA know a congested area when they see one.
 

bryancobb

Junior Member
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Cartersville, GA
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Owned Brantly B-2b/Fly Kitfox III/Mini-500b
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This coming weekend I am picking up a C-172 I just purchased from south Jersey. To fly it home from there to North Georgia, I will weave through the Class E airspace to the coast and follow the coast almost to Myrtle Beach, remaining in Class E. Only once will I be required to divert inland, to avoid a Restricted Area in North Carolina.

By doing this instead of going direct, I am avoiding bumpy mountains and keeping the hard sand shore in view. It also makes VFR navigation by pilotage very simple. since it is a 60 year old airplane that I'm not acquainted with, I'm assuming the Transponder and/or Comm will fail and maybe my engine will quit. It's being flown regularly, has a 6 cylinder Continental, and has a fresh annual. It's owner has owned it since 1997. Flight home is almost 1000 KM.


I see no reason you could not do this, even in a gyro with no transponder or radios. I will not be within any Mode C Veils or in or under any Class D or C.route.jpg
 
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j4flyer

Member
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Apr 7, 2004
Messages
187
Location
Woodland, Ca
What type of Gyro are you attempting to fly to Florida ? If it is an open frame vs a semi or enclosed gyro, you may receive different responses.
 

Tyger

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Germantown, NY
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Magni M16
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This coming weekend I am picking up a C-172 I just purchased from south Jersey. To fly it home from there to North Georgia, I will weave through the Class E airspace to the coast and follow the coast almost to Myrtle Beach, remaining in Class E. Only once will I be required to divert inland, to avoid a Restricted Area in North Carolina.
It looks to me like you actually started from northern NJ. We're you really able to follow that route? The corridor between the Newark and Philadelphia Mode-C veils is only about 10nm wide, and I thought I saw that the Bedminster presidential TFR was in effect last weekend, which would have totally closed that corridor off.
 
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bryancobb

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Because of the TFR I moved my plans forward one day to fly south on MON. I drove 900 miles up, inspected the Cessna 172 (Airplane) and flew it with the owner riding along. We both weighed over 260# and it yanked us up from the short, remote grass strip and flew very well. It just had bad radios and ICOMs. The body was in great shape with no dings or dents. The paint and instrument panel were not nice enough to give passengers I'm trying to introduce to flying a good feeling. I could not teach my daughter to fly without new radios. I didn't want a project so I drove home. 1800 miles in 3 days, alone. I'm tired.
 

bryancobb

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What type of Gyro are you attempting to fly to Florida ? If it is an open frame vs a semi or enclosed gyro, you may receive different responses.
Yes, I realize this is a rotorcraft forum but MOST aviators, no matter what genre, are interested in people's stories. If you don't like it here...just keep walking, there's nothing to see here.

My short story WAS contextual to the topic being discussed.
 

j4flyer

Member
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Woodland, Ca
Bryan it reads like you took my comment totally incorrectly. I thought you were thinking of flying a Gyro and switched to the Cessna. I don’t understand the aggression.
 

Tyger

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So you had a deal to buy the airplane but then rejected it when you saw it because of the paint job and two bad radios?
 

bryancobb

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Bryan it reads like you took my comment totally incorrectly. I thought you were thinking of flying a Gyro and switched to the Cessna. I don’t understand the aggression.
Please accept my sincere apology. I did misunderstand your comment. What I thought it was saying in a sarcastic way was "This is a ROTORCRAFT forum. No one is interested in your damn airplane stories." Let's flush it :)
 

bryancobb

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Owned Brantly B-2b/Fly Kitfox III/Mini-500b
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So you had a deal to buy the airplane but then rejected it when you saw it because of the paint job and two bad radios?
Exactly. Radios are expensive, a paintjob is expensive, and I did not want a "project." My sole reason to buy a plane is to get my kid's license for free and then sell. If I had to get radios and paint to make Mom and the kid feel positive about getting in it, owning would be no cheaper than renting the FBO's 172's. In short, when I was a few seconds from signing my Title and getting his signed FAA Bill of Sale, it just did not feel right.
 
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