Poor braking action with Black Max wheels and Brakes

[wolfy]

I have never been much past 3000 RPM without creeping. Images from my installation attached.

That black soft hose looks like the remote res hose?
If so the reservoir will need to be mounted higher then the master for auto self bleed.

wolfy

 

[MikeBoyette]

It's probably apples to oranges, but on the brake master cylinder( MC) on my Air Command (AC)
there is a bleeder at the pedal.
I had to bleed the MC by loosening the brake line at the MC while pumping and holding pressure from an oil can at a rear wheel.
Then tighten it while holding pressure and then repeat while holding pressure from the bleeder on the MC.
I had to go around the gyro a couple times chasing bubbles and do the MC last.
Royal PITA!!!!
The clear lines helped as I could see the offending air as it mocked me.....

Bet you like those simplistic band brakes on your Dominator. People make fun but another example of my pops ability to use the KISS method.

 

[Aerofoam]

Bet you like those simplistic band brakes on your Dominator. People make fun but another example of my pops ability to use the KISS method.

Yes I do, but I think I could shave a pound or so off by switching to cabled bicycle disk brakes.......

 

[MikeBoyette]

Yes I do, but I think I could shave a pound or so off by switching to cabled bicycle disk brakes.......

Some have done that but honestly unless your over 225 a 503 UltraWhite flys great at the weight it is. Weld the 4130 parts shut and fill them with helium. Jk lol. Tires could be filled as well air shocks. Wonder what it would do?

 

[Aerofoam]

Some have done that but honestly unless your over 225 a 503 UltraWhite flys great at the weight it is. Weld the 4130 parts shut and fill them with helium. Jk lol. Tires could be filled as well air shocks. Wonder what it would do?

Actually, Barry T was telling me about some urethane shock/sleaves that have better properties than the shocks, probably only weigh 8 to 12oz and cost under $20
I have not found them yet, don't know what they are called....
That would be a huge weight savings, I think those shocks are over 8lbs per side......
I am going to re-do the nose in CF with Rohacell and it should go from 30lbs. to maybe 13-ish
The CF tail will lose a little weight, but not much.....

 

[Sv.grainne]

The caliper in your photo shows why you are having a problem. The caliper should be installed above the axle which then places the hydraulic source low in the wheel cylinder and the bleed fitting up high.

How were the original wheel cylinders oriented on the AR-1.

Was the axle woodruff key on the AR-1 on the top or bottom of the axle.

 

[Aerofoam]

"The caliper in your photo shows why you are having a problem. The caliper should be installed above the axle which then places the hydraulic source low in the wheel cylinder and the bleed fitting up high. "

I actually installed calipers on my 85 Mercedes diesel wagon backwards once.
You could install them on the wrong side, so they were upside down and trapped a huge bubble that was nearly bleed proof.
I chased my tail for a few weeks with that one, they worked but at about 95%.
Felt like an idiot when I realized what happened.....

PS, is it possible the entire axle is on the wrong side?
If it is ambidextrous, it would place the caliper upside down....

 

[Abid]

The caliper in your photo shows why you are having a problem. The caliper should be installed above the axle which then places the hydraulic source low in the wheel cylinder and the bleed fitting up high.

How were the original wheel cylinders oriented on the AR-1.

Was the axle woodruff key on the AR-1 on the top or bottom of the axle.


View attachment 1161395

Bobby.
There is no Woodruff key in this axle. We don’t use the axle by FBI. We make our own Axle weldment with 4130 hardened by heat treatment. It uses the welded bracket that attaches to the 3 holes in brake caliper to secure its placement. Much more solid and better setup than a woodruff key. I have had FBI axles with woodruff keys snap off in Monsoon trikes back in the day operating on rough grass fields.

The caliper is installed like we installed. If there was air in the system the brake handle would feel a bit spongy.
The FBI brake caliper you have pictured is different. This is a dual caliper brake system on each side. The bleeders (one for each of the dual caliper should be on the high side I believe). During bleeding you can crack open one at a time but should not crack open bleeder screws more than an 1/8th of a turn otherwise you are sucking in air. That is general guidance for all brake bleeding nothing special for this system. In our case because the caliper is installed at an angle, one of the bleeders is higher than the other in the dual caliper system. In theory air over time should accumulate there but in a new bleed it may be good to crack both open (one at a time) to prime the system. They are supposed to look like shown in attachments (from Revolt trike because I do not have an AR-1 with these wheels in this hanger right now). I cannot make out from Rob's picture where the bleeders are. But I am guessing they are there. They seem to be hidden away in his picture.

 

[Aerofoam]

bleeders is higher than the other in the dual caliper system. In theory air over time should accumulate there but in a new bleed it may be good to crack both open (one at a time) to prime the system.

Abid is correct, this is what I was juggling with the AC system, If I had someone to pump the fluid with the oil can WHILE I closed the bleeder during the pump stroke, it would have been very simple.... 4 hours later and 3 x as much ATF on the ground than in the lines, I got the timing right....

 

[Sv.grainne]

Abid:

Thanks for the explanation. I've bled lots of brakes and familiar with the spongy feel when there is air left in the system.

Looks like the dual caliper solution leaves some room for air to be trapped at the wheel cylinders.

Bobby

 

[Strike]

Do you want a brake rim kit that works? Use these single disc or dual disc as you want