Police testing Gyros

Charles

Charles
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Hey Tim
Know how to say gyrocopter in German?
TRAGSCHRAUBER

That what I deducted from the description in the video.
Notice the machine, this is serious with a horizontal stab, MAGNI, not RAF.
One of the very safest on the market today besides a few American ones.

I whished I could shake hand with you at Mentone this year but too bad, I wont be there. I'm presently trying to fill my piggy bank with coins to be there in 2008.

See you then

Charles Gagne
Quebec city Qc
Canada
 

Timchick

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Charles, I believe the gyros in the video were German MT-03's. I didn't make Mentone this year. I'm hoping for next year. I'll see you there next year.
 

Rotornut

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If I remember Air Command had a Gyro for Police Use that was being used by some state in Law Enforcement. But I am Getting Old and I might or Could be Wrong. I remember seeing one with Police logo on the pod. I thought it was Air Command's Gyro. Anyone Know about this ship. MJ :)
PS/ Then again I am a Female and not even in a chapter just a PRA Member, EAA, ASC. So take it as just a passing statement or comment. Or just My Two Cents!
 

PTKay

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Yes, they are MT-03.

The general opinion of the local police officer in the video,
in his interview, is very positive, as well as the pilot-officer,
stating, that many innovations were laugh at in the beginning,
but then made a break through.

They state helicopter hour is 2000-3000 EUR, gyro just 50 EUR.
Of course not all heli ops to be done by gyro, but some
surveillance and search activities are possible.

They call it "motorcycle patrol in the sky".

The negative voice is from the back ground, stating, that
the Police Trade Unions are against, due to safety risk.
The comment is, that no reliable figures on safety are available,
because to few gyroplanes are flying at the moment.

The test will be concluded in November.
 
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greeny

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.. not that cheap, but still

.. not that cheap, but still

.. gyro just 50 EUR ..
The police official says 100 to 150 EUR, but even this is ridiculously cheap compared to chopper hours.

What I wish to add: The "Spiegel" is not just another news magazine, it is about THE leading opinion maker in Germany.
So this very favorable video clip is really good news to the gyro community.

Of course, the open frame MT-03 with tandem seats would seem a poor choice for the intended tasks. But it is - at the time - the only gyro with German approuval that is built in Germany (in Hildesheim).
 

SamL

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If I remember Air Command had a Gyro for Police Use that was being used by some state in Law Enforcement. But I am Getting Old and I might or Could be Wrong. I remember seeing one with Police logo on the pod. I thought it was Air Command's Gyro. Anyone Know about this ship. MJ :)
PS/ Then again I am a Female and not even in a chapter just a PRA Member, EAA, ASC. So take it as just a passing statement or comment. Or just My Two Cents!

Is this the one Rotornut :first:
 

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Timchick

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With Germany's weather an enclosed gyro would be better but even if they start out with the MT-03's and then later go to an enclosed gyro it's still a big step forward for gyros.
 

SamL

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Very Nice machines, But I find it very interesting how the first grey one dips its nose during take off and initial climb.

Sam.........:suspicious:
 

Timchick

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Sam, MJ is right. Air command briefly had an enclosed side by side gyro and I used to have a photo of one with police markings on it. My brother is a police officer and I sent him that photo. I can't find the photo now. I think the photo was on an older PC of mine and was lost when a hard drive tore up.
 

rfsolutions

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I've got about 100 hours logged flying surveillance & Search & Rescue for our local Sheriff as a volunteer in an RAF2000. I'm putting an AAI mod together and will be using that when it's done & out of Phase 1.

Sheriff Joe loves anything that's free (I'm a volunteer Posse member).

The helicopter guys looked at it sideways for awhile but have now started to accept it.

The new Sportcopter looks promising as being capable of supporting law enforcement?

Time will tell?
 

rfsolutions

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Cheaper????

Cheaper????

Comparing helicopters & gyroplanes is apples & oranges but the Robinson R22s are as close as it comes.

1st of all, your operating costs per hour don’t seem to take into account the purchase price of the aircraft? Divide the purchase price of the aircraft by 2200 hours of use (Overhaul time for complete aircraft). Then add your operating costs. Robinson has done a wonderful job of keeping maintenance low. The trade off is you time almost the entire aircraft out and it’s considered a core at 2200 hours. You rebuild it and are ready for another 2200 hours. Give me the name & phone number of a place I can rent/lease an R22 for $104.01 an hour wet, and I’ll sign up for all the time I can get!!!!!!

An experimental homebuilt gyro is not a fair comparison so let’s use something you can buy & fly. I’ve had the opportunity to demo the Xenon. It’s MUCH roomier than an R22 and MUCH easier to fly. It uses an aircraft engine and centerline thrust design. I believe it can be purchased for about $80,000 fully loaded? I’m sure the Xenon guys can correct me. That’s about 1/3 the cost of your R22. How do they stack up as mission capable?

1. Cost: R22 $226,170.00 Xenon $80,000.00. Gyro wins!
2. Light helicopters cannot work with any significant external loads (hoists, slings, etc). This would be required for actual rescue missions. Neither can gyros. Draw!
3. Gyros have considerably less maintenance costs per hour. The R22 is close for low maintenance but at 2200 hours it’s a core. Gyro wins!
4. Search & observation roles. Both fly slow & low. Both have excellent visibility. Gyro burns ½ the gas & can use Mogas (cheaper). Gyro wins!
5. Vertical take off & landing. R22 wins! How often this is a requirement of a search or observation missions seems to be pretty infrequent.

Having direct experience with search & rescue operations as well as observation missions, I can state that the gyro has a place in this role. Acceptance will grow with successful missions completed. With cost being a factor, the gyroplane has plenty to offer! What seems to be non-sense to you can be an opportunity to enhance operations for others!
 

quadrirotor

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The break down of Robinson is OK! An helico keeps its value, provision is made for overhaul...Do the same for the Xenon or the MT03 and we'll speak later!...

That's the problem of the serious gyro schools: when they realize what it costs to manage gyros, they are near the bankrupcy!!!

Many ultralight aircrafts have been used for the mission you mentioned and, have been abandoned...

It seems, there is a problem of maintenance and liability...No one can be certified on non certified aircraft; and certified repairmen don't want to touch a non-certified aircraft...That's a question of insurance and liability...Administrations don't want to deal with liability with non certified aircraft!
And, if you want a certified gyro: first there is none...but if you could, the price would be a lot more than a R22!...And then, it would be very hard to find a repairman who is certified on this machine...

A lot simple to have a R22!...
 

rfsolutions

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You still need almost a quarter of a million bucks to start! The cost per hour given doesn't account for this, or have I done my math incorrectly? Where are the $104 R22 rentals? The cost is actually about triple!

You can buy 3 Xenons for the same price as the R22 and throw them away every 2000 hours and get 6000 hours of aircraft use for the same price. Plenty of people are capable of maintaining a Rotax 912. Everything else is basic A&P stuff.

Public use aircraft don't need to be certified. I can send pictures of a hangar full of surplus aircraft without data plates being maintained by County employees. Most public entities & municipalities are self insured. They fly all of them for public use. Many aircraft that wouldn't be qualified as certified aircraft perform public use functions daily (ever see a fire bomber in action?).

R22s are marginally safe certified helicopters anyway! It's the only helicopter that requires special training to get your rating. It was the dismal safety record of the R22 that required the special rules.

To step up to a real helicopter requires allot more cash than the R22 you're touting. The cost will be substantially greater too! Price a Bell turbine or an A-Star. A Robinson R44 is a real helicopter but double the price & operating costs of the R22.

If the gyro industry keeps working on safer designs and promoting better training, things may change? I believe the future looks good!
 

quadrirotor

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http://www.robinsonheli.com/pdf_files/r44_1_eoc_rev.C_15jan2007.pdf

Do your break down, and we'll speak of it!!..

If you hire a "normal" pilot to use a "sub-normal" (EXPERIMENTAL) aircraft, and this pilot is killed in it: ANY lawyer will suck any amount of money he wants from you!!!

If you don't find a R22 at 105$/h, the difference is the overhead+realestate+profit+etc!!!...

And if you borrow the money, you'll have almost 20000$/year of financial costs!!!...TTS ~40$/h for the bank!!!...

You will not find, neither, in a restaurant, two eggs sunny side up at 20ç!!!...
 
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PR_Arecibo_DC

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Just out of curiocity....what about:

The RotorWay Exec 162F and the New Talon 600. Fully assamble and the fully loaded run's for around $97,000.00, and the maint cost is lower than the R22, maybe between the gyro and the R22 this will be the happy-medium. Plus even they have now the turbine version, wich the maint cost is not that much different than the regular engine. It use mogas or av gas... accomodate 2 people. Utilize the new Enigma panel.
 

Caribean_gyro

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But still the ration flying time to maintenace 3 to 1. Also the preflight is very long. What it counts is the operational cost.

Goverment can afford cheap R22, but when the maintenace,parts,pilot fuel star adding up at the end of the month is a killer. Then you are requested to reduce your department expenses who ou do it. You fired some pilots and mechanic and fly less mision.

SO in a gyro you only use the Hely when indeed needed.

ChuckP
 

rfsolutions

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