Past Gyro Accident

mceagle

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
1,239
Location
Sunshine Coast, Qld, Australia
Aircraft
Eagle Rotorcraft
Total Flight Time
600 hrs
Chuck Irby's accident. It is not with any pleasure that I bring this topic up again but I read back through the relevant thread and I could not find any findings as to the cause of this unfortunate accident. I recall at least a couple of similar accidents in Oz, and as much as we do not like to speak ill of the deceased, both accidents caused a change of thinking in Oz and a lot was learn't that possibly contributed to no repeats of the same thing.
I only knew Chuck through the forum and I would suggest that he would have been saddened if he knew his passing was in vain. I am sure that he would have wished that the cause be made public and perhaps save another life, (if not more).
Many Gyronauts are offended by others suggesting that they modify certain unsafe practices but I have found that if enough people bring it to their attention often enough, they will eventually come around.
I could list many such practices that have been learnt the hard way and perhaps that would not be a bad idea - a list of unsafe practices and the reasons why they are unsafe. I am sure many Instructors and technical members could contribute to this.
 
I agree Tim.
It happened to Chuck Irby,so it could happen to any of us.
Complacency would be one of the bigger causes,not that I'm sugesting it was the cause in Chuck's case,but I know a bloke round ere,a non pilot,that we now call chop chop.He simply got too close to an ideling machine,and needed 38 stitches in his arm as a result.He's damn lucky he didnt get draged in coz it was on the down side of the prop disc.

Electric starts and park breaks would also help.
 
There was a show on UltraFlight Radio (online) just this past week where the topic was Decision Making, which current accounts for more than 70% of all aviation accidents. I think there is something to be said concerning Decision Making, and like a good pre-flight inspection, good Decision Making should be as automatic as reaching for a check list.

You're right Tim. A detailed list of do's and don'ts would be a huge benefit to us all. I'd even go as far as to have it printed in magazines, and maybe go as far as to have the PRA include it in a package with every new member they get.
 
I met Chuck Irby last year at B-days. He was a very likeable fellow.
He was also very interested in gyro safety.

I'm as guilty as the next guy of sometimes being casual around pull-start Rotaxes. Part of the reason we get sloppy is that these engines are very much safer than the hand-propped VW's and Mac's we started with.

In a throttle operated by a pull-cable, you rely on an unseen spring to return the carb slide to its idle position. One way to make sure the slide hasn't stuck (with the cable going slack) is the close the throttle smartly and listen for the slide hitting its idle stop, just before you pull the starter. If there's no click, you better investigate. Also, if you move the throttle control to idle and then feel less resistance than usual when you advance the control again, the slide is likely stuck.

Also (and again, I'm guilty here), don't position the start handle in a place that requires you to stand beside the engine and pull parallel to the wheel axles. This position puts you close to the prop (less time to get out of the way if it surges) and, at the same time, takes you away from the throttle and mag switches that you could use to stop a runaway engine.

Get a longer rope and route the rope forward with one or more pulleys. Position it so that you can stand next to the seat and pull forward, not to the side. If you're a real gorilla, you may be able to pull it while stitting in the seat -- but I've never been able to give a very hearty yank from that position. In either case, a favorite position for the rope is up and over a pulley mounted on the rotor head cheek plates. It's a good idea to secure the handle with a strip of velcro when it's not in use, and to run the rope through a piece of plastic hose. This makes it less likely that a broken rope will find its way into the prop or rotor (yes, it has happened).

If you can rig up a parking brake and/or electric starting, do so. Both add a safety reserve to your start procedure.
 
Doug - you are not going to the gym often enough if you can't pull start from the seat... You've got to strengthen those pull muscles ;)

This kind of accident may be caused due to human factors and/or mechanical failures. The best pilots are not immune to either cause. This is why we have to minimize the consequences, if it were to happen to us.

I was witness to an incident similar to Chuck's in which the pilot walked away (for a fresh pair of underwear). This pilot started his AAI-modified RAF with the throttle close to full open. He was sitting in the seat, unbuckled. When the engine started he had about 3 seconds to react before colliding with a wall at high speed. Luckily, he did (and I had to get my heart going again). The only reason he walked away was because he was sitting inside the cabin and not standing on the side.

If you want to be really safe, use an electric starter or pull-start from the seat. Pulling while standing in front of the landing gear is safer than standing by the engine - no question - but I don't think this is very safe when your engine has more than 40-50 HP. A powerful engine would run you over at full power, even if you were standing ahead of the landing gear.

Udi
 
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I was told that the throttle on Chuck's gyro got pushed to the full position by someone else (unknown person, while the gyro was sitting on display). Chuck did not know that it had been changed from the idle position. The throttle was on the left side of the gyro and Chuck was standing on the right side of the gyro when he started it. It then quickly jumped forward tripping him into the prop.
 
Always, ALWAYS check the throttle position by physically cycling it up and back before you fire up. Listen for the carb slide or butterfly contacting its own stop. I also give the handle a last tap against its stop with the flat of my hand just before pulling the rope or hitting the starter. Know what you'll do if it surges. Be able to reach the kill switch without looking or hesitating. If possible, have your finger right on the kill switch as you pull a manual starter through.

As for going to a gym, Udi, I visited Jim just last week, only he don't spell his name that funny foreign way.
 
Udi,you don't need a gym to strengthen those PULL muscles. :p :D
 
I go to the gym almost every day. I drive right past it on my way to Baskin-Robbins.
 
Tim , we had another gyro accident a few months before Chucks. It was told to me that Chuck was asking what could be done to possibly prevent this from happing to someone else. I believe he mention something about a boat kill switch which would pull out if the craft moved too far from the person operating it. I have thought about a kill switch on the mast for my Bensen but I will probably adopt a starter to the Mac. I started my Mac up the other day after installing Ricks CDI. I chained it to a tree and held the mast back by hand then I throtted it up. I have a lot more respect for it now than before. I also had a friend who is 230 lbs and benches 400. The machine still crept forward and was held by the chain. I will do something. Starter, kill switch, something. We all miss Chuck.
 
Udi said:
Well, Birdy, I really don't need it :cool: but I didn't want to offend anyone... :rolleyes:

Udi

With all the kids you got I know you don't need that kind of exercise!
 
It looks as though the Instructors have more work to do. It is indeed a bad mistake to start any aircraft engine without first checking throttle position. Such accidents are still happening and will keep happening as long as the pilot is not taught correctly or has become complacent.
Many offer the common excuse that "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink". This is a cop out! - Of course you can make him drink, at least in 99% of cases anyway. The Instructor has control over the issue of his licence, and also has a respected rank over the student or newchum.
Why not introduce them to one or more of the following:-
a friend who has fingers or a hand missing,
another who has been cracked on the head with a rotor,
perhaps another who has to watch because he cannot afford a rebuild,
there is always the one in hiding pending a house threatening liability claim,
if that does not pull them into gear, then introduce them to a fello gyronaut's widow and family.
I think we all know someone who fits one or more of the above descriptions. The worst thing is that is also possible for an innocent party to be injured or killed.
Sounds drastic but what price to save a human life.

Doug has described well how easy it is to check Rotax throttle positions, but this is only the tip of the iceburg, made up of the many ways and means that gyronauts can utilize to try to kill themselves.
 
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I have seen quite a few gyro pilots hand prop their engines without one very important piece of safety equipement....wheel chocks. I have never started my gyro without wheel chocks in front of each main tire...and I dont mean those little chocks...I have the large rubber ones that will chock a tractor trailer.
 
Hi Guys, (and MJ)

I use a chicken switch on the mast, about head height.
When I pull through the VW to prime it, the ignition is off,
and I push the spring switch on the mast for the pull to start
the engine. If all is OK when it starts, I reach down and switch on the
ignition switch. If I dont like something, I just step back, and it stops.

I also have a strobe mounted at eye level on the mast, which is
damn all use as a strobe, but very good at warning me if I should leave
the ignition on by mistake. This can happen if the engine cuts out at idle.

Engine surges on startup are very common, for all sorts of reasons.
Mostly folks just get a brief fright, but sometimes......

We have had three startup runaways in Ireland last year, that I know of.

Cheers

Fergus.
 
Wheel chocks... Chicken switch... Strobe light... Except for the strobe, these can easily be implemented on a 2-stroke machine.

Anyone know if "runaway" accidents/incidents are tracked on the NASA or FAA database?
 
I did a Google search on "kill switches" once, and found a lot of them listed for use in drag racing motorbikes and ATVs. They use a tether, similar to the ones on wet bikes, to kill the engine if the rider is thrown off. The tether uses a cable instead of plastic.

Seems like these could have a use as a safety cut-off switch on gyros.

Alan

Alan
 
Well, maybe not. The prop isn't going to stop instantly... but the machine will travel forward to where the pilot is standing in a flash.

The real lesson in all of this may be that an aircraft can't be reduced to a consumer product like a Jet-Ski can. You just have to be more professional around these inherently dangerous flying gadgets.

I did a little article for the PRA mag on the topic of starting procedures and Emailed it to the office this morning.
 
With regard to using electrical switches as protection for a runaway/runover gyro, I would like to remind everyone that electrical switches have two main modes of failure:

1. The switch may not work when you need it to work. In this case, a mast mounted switch, for example, may get stuck closed and not open the circuit when you let go. Remember that you trust your life with a simple mechanical device.

2. The switch may work when you don't want it to work. In this case, an emergency kill switch may kill the engine while you are in the air, causing an unintended emergency landing or worse.

So, when you are installing an additional control on your gyro, like an additional kill switch, you are making the system more complicated, thus more prone to failures. This is ok, as long as you have considered everything that can go wrong with this new device, and remembering what a failure of this device can mean to you and your gyro. Keep doing this mental exercise for every part in your gyro and you will have long life.

Udi
 
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