Our Safety.

Resasi

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This caught my eye today.

It resonated in part due to the recent demise of a new friend, fellow aviator, and gyro-nut I had had the good fortune to come upon.

I have flown for a major part of my life, both as a means of supporting my self, building a structure upon which to raise a family, and to pursue a dream. But, in this particular phase of my life, I have lost more friends, acquaintances, and fellow aviators than at any of my time in aviation.

My career in aviation was founded upon being an instructor at an early stage. A stepping stone...and a delight, in the fulfilment in just a part of the passion of my life ambition...and what I believe has been the strongest foundation in my chosen field that I was fortunate enough to have stumbled upon.

His sincerity and grasp of what should be every pilots goal, was impressive. I, in admiration of its sentiment, can only pass it on in the spirit I am sure he intended.

 
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Gyro-nut

Gyro Blacksheep
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410
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Indianapolis, In
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Aviomania Genesis Duo
I watched this video yesterday and caught myself shaking my head in agreement with everything he stated.
We need more instructor like this gentleman!
 

okikuma

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Of course, the above video is not an implication or generalization of all CFIs.

What is very sad is this young student pilot put his faith in and suffered the consequences of death because of a very hateful and purposeful arrogant individual that happens to be a CFI.

In the November 2023 issue, EAA Sport Aviation magazine, Steve Krog: Poor Training, Los Skills, or LAX Attitude. When good enough isn't.

Wayne
 

Abid

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
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Well, this CFI in the video was a special case going so far as to post his musings on snapchat about a lesson in almost real time.
Most instructors aren't like that but we do have some of these attitudes and we need to keep ourselves in check.
A student who does especially slow pre-flights etc. well either have them come early and do the pre-flight before you are there to fly or charge them ground time. Simple. I have the other problem with many students. Even though they know how to do a proper pre-flight, they won't do it. Getting a ladder to get up and look at the rotor-head to make sure all welds are good; bolts and nuts are secured, snug and so on. Why, because it requires pulling a ladder next to the gyroplane and getting on it. It is an amazing display of lax and carefree attitude and has to be pointed out.
 

okikuma

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Well, this CFI in the video was a special case going so far as to post his musings on snapchat about a lesson in almost real time.
Most instructors aren't like that but we do have some of these attitudes and we need to keep ourselves in check.
A student who does especially slow pre-flights etc. well either have them come early and do the pre-flight before you are there to fly or charge them ground time. Simple. I have the other problem with many students. Even though they know how to do a proper pre-flight, they won't do it. Getting a ladder to get up and look at the rotor-head to make sure all welds are good; bolts and nuts are secured, snug and so on. Why, because it requires pulling a ladder next to the gyroplane and getting on it. It is an amazing display of lax and carefree attitude and has to be pointed out.
Over the years, I've worked at a couple of Aircraft Rental / Flight Schools. There were a share of lazy and unsafe renters, students, and CFIs which would be quickly dealt with and placed on the DO NOT RENT / NO FLY list. One was a student that after several lessons, he was no longer going to perform preflight inspections. This student's CFI said he going to get rid of the student and I agreed.

We had one C-172 down for prop maintenance. The prop was removed. When the student arrived, I handed over the rental book, had the student sign out the airplane and his CFI told him to go preflight the five minutes later, the student is back in the office. The CFI asks him did he preflight the airplane? The student said, "Yes I did." A 100% lie. I pull down the binder with the DO NOT RENT / NO FLY in 72 point sized font on the front cover and start writing his name in the book. The student sees me writing his name and questions me why. I told him that he is a liar and will no longer be allowed to rent and fly here. He starts screaming that I was not outside to see that he did not preflight the airplane. The CFI said, "We don't need to see that you did not preflight the airplane because there is no propeller on the plane. If you honestly did perform the preflight, you would come in and ask us why is the prop missing?"

The student runs back outside, sees the prop is indeed missing, and runs back into the office screaming, "YOU TRICKED ME!!!! THIS IS NOT FAIR!!! I AM GOING TO SUE YOU FOR CALLING ME A LIAR!!! YOU CANNOT TREAT ME THIS WAY!!! My reply was, "We just did. you are no longer welcome here. Service is now refused to you. Leave the premises now or law enforcement will remove you, and we will file a restraining order.

He stormed out of the office, never to come back or hear from him again.

Wayne
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
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Santa Maria, California
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Givens Predator
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I teach aviation decision making from the first lesson and I like to imagine that none of my learners would allow me to fly anywhere near a thunderstorm.

Even if they did not learn it from me; if someone is to the point of doing night cross countries they should have had considerable learning about weather hazards, diversion and aviation decision making.

It appears to me that both the accident learner’s flight instructors and his flight school failed him.

This is a much bigger failure than one clueless flight instructor.
 

Brent Smith

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Auburn, CA
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Mini-IMP-C
Over the years, I've worked at a couple of Aircraft Rental / Flight Schools. There were a share of lazy and unsafe renters, students, and CFIs which would be quickly dealt with and placed on the DO NOT RENT / NO FLY list. One was a student that after several lessons, he was no longer going to perform preflight inspections. This student's CFI said he going to get rid of the student and I agreed.

We had one C-172 down for prop maintenance. The prop was removed. When the student arrived, I handed over the rental book, had the student sign out the airplane and his CFI told him to go preflight the five minutes later, the student is back in the office. The CFI asks him did he preflight the airplane? The student said, "Yes I did." A 100% lie. I pull down the binder with the DO NOT RENT / NO FLY in 72 point sized font on the front cover and start writing his name in the book. The student sees me writing his name and questions me why. I told him that he is a liar and will no longer be allowed to rent and fly here. He starts screaming that I was not outside to see that he did not preflight the airplane. The CFI said, "We don't need to see that you did not preflight the airplane because there is no propeller on the plane. If you honestly did perform the preflight, you would come in and ask us why is the prop missing?"

The student runs back outside, sees the prop is indeed missing, and runs back into the office screaming, "YOU TRICKED ME!!!! THIS IS NOT FAIR!!! I AM GOING TO SUE YOU FOR CALLING ME A LIAR!!! YOU CANNOT TREAT ME THIS WAY!!! My reply was, "We just did. you are no longer welcome here. Service is now refused to you. Leave the premises now or law enforcement will remove you, and we will file a restraining order.

He stormed out of the office, never to come back or hear from him again.

Wayne
I love a story with a happy ending, Wayne. ;-)
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
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Givens Predator
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One of the things that puzzles me as a flight instructor is during my training I was told to go preflight the aircraft without supervision.

I feel I had an good flight instructor at a good flight school.

It was not unusual for me to find something amiss.

When I am instructing I preflight the aircraft before the learner arrives because I have found I cannot teach preflight and do preflight at the same time.

To be fair I have had more than one learner find something I had missed.

After supervising my learners doing several preflight inspections; at some point I have my learners teach me to preflight so I know they understand it.

I always supervise a learners preflight inspection and post flight walk around and encourage them to take as much time as they want.

In my opinion Wayne’s story is a failure of the flight instructor and flight school more than the learner.

The learner does not come with an understanding of how important preflight is.

In my opinion it is the instructors job to help the learner understand priorities.
 
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Aerofoam

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Over 3k....(From the ground !)
I teach aviation decision making from the first lesson and I like to imagine that none of my learners would allow me to fly anywhere near a thunderstorm.

Even if they did not learn it from me; if someone is to the point of doing night cross countries they should have had considerable learning about weather hazards, diversion and aviation decision making.

It appears to me that both the accident learner’s flight instructors and his flight school failed him.

This is a much bigger failure than one clueless flight instructor.
Thanks for saying that Vance, my first impression when I saw the video was that I would have suggested going out for dinner instead of flying in that weather......
 

500e

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a lot more now
An interesting post that we all should take to hart, too meany are flying into trouble, inattention in the job in hand, Your walk round is important for your continued happiness (life).
I see a lot that dont, either do them or have no list, they are the people who get in crank it up and fly little or no warm up, cool down towering take off with full fuel and seats, when there is no need.
 

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
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The video above, at about 11:20, says that as flight instructors, "we took an oath to be professional ambassadors to aviation".

There is no such oath required of U.S. CFIs. Perhaps there should be, and it is admirable to act as if bound by one, but it is "not a thing", as they say.

I wonder where he got that.
 

Resasi

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Not sure. One may certainly make a personal wish to be as good as one can be as an instructor.

I was very fortunate. My first was an ex-military Instructor from RAF Central Flying School, or an Instructor's Instructor.

He to me...the epitome of what any Instructor should be, and an inspiring example to follow. I would imagine that this gentleman had a similar experience.
 

okikuma

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Messages
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Santa Clarita, CA
I feel I had an good flight instructor at a good flight school.

It was not unusual for me to find something amiss.

When I am instructing I preflight the aircraft before the learner arrives because I have found I cannot teach preflight and do preflight at the same time.

To be fair I have had more than one learner find something I had missed.

After supervising my learners doing several preflight inspections; at some point I have my learners teach me to preflight so I know they understand it.

I always supervise a learners preflight inspection and post flight walk around and encourage them to take as much time as they want.

In my opinion Wayne’s story is a failure of the flight instructor and flight school more than the learner.

The learner does not come with an understanding of how important preflight is.

In my opinion it is the instructors job to help the learner understand priorities.

One of the things that puzzles me as a flight instructor is during my training I was told to go preflight the aircraft without supervision.

I feel I had an good flight instructor at a good flight school.

It was not unusual for me to find something amiss.

When I am instructing I preflight the aircraft before the learner arrives because I have found I cannot teach preflight and do preflight at the same time.

To be fair I have had more than one learner find something I had missed.

After supervising my learners doing several preflight inspections; at some point I have my learners teach me to preflight so I know they understand it.

I always supervise a learners preflight inspection and post flight walk around and encourage them to take as much time as they want.

In my opinion Wayne’s story is a failure of the flight instructor and flight school more than the learner.

The learner does not come with an understanding of how important preflight is.

In my opinion it is the instructors job to help the learner understand priorities.
This was not a one time incident with this student in the above story. The student during his previous lesson was spoken to on his negative attitude toward not wanting to performing a preflight.

Students have a responsibility to accept the information presented to them by an instructor.

The CFI in this story was very competent. After teaching a student how to perform a through preflight, he would have the student demonstrate and explain each step back to him(I have known many CFIs use this method too). Before various lessons, this CFI and many other CFIs I know would often use the following methods to show a student had they really performed through preflight.

Place a piece of tape over one of the pitot-static ports
Piece of tape over the pitot tube,
Remove the oil dipstick and place it in the baggage compartment
Remove one of the gas caps and place it on top of the nose wheel tire.

The majority of the students would catch these discrepancies and report.

No Vance, there was no failure from the CFI or the flight school with this student. It would be a failure to General Aviation and to the general public to allow such a student with such a negative attitude and behavior to rent and fly airplanes.

The student found a flight-by-night establishment to help him get his ASEL rating. Not long after, the individual killed himself trying to fly in IMC without an instrument rating.

As for the names that were recorded in the DO NOT RENT / NO FLY list (25 years worth), 95% had met their demise while flying by the time that aircraft rental / flight school closed up operations.

Wayne
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
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Santa Maria, California
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Givens Predator
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This was not a one time incident with this student in the above story. The student during his previous lesson was spoken to on his negative attitude toward not wanting to performing a preflight.

Students have a responsibility to accept the information presented to them by an instructor.

The CFI in this story was very competent. After teaching a student how to perform a through preflight, he would have the student demonstrate and explain each step back to him(I have known many CFIs use this method too). Before various lessons, this CFI and many other CFIs I know would often use the following methods to show a student had they really performed through preflight.

Place a piece of tape over one of the pitot-static ports
Piece of tape over the pitot tube,
Remove the oil dipstick and place it in the baggage compartment
Remove one of the gas caps and place it on top of the nose wheel tire.

The majority of the students would catch these discrepancies and report.

No Vance, there was no failure from the CFI or the flight school with this student. It would be a failure to General Aviation and to the general public to allow such a student with such a negative attitude and behavior to rent and fly airplanes.

The student found a flight-by-night establishment to help him get his ASEL rating. Not long after, the individual killed himself trying to fly in IMC without an instrument rating.

As for the names that were recorded in the DO NOT RENT / NO FLY list (25 years worth), 95% had met their demise while flying by the time that aircraft rental / flight school closed up operations.

Wayne
In my opinion it is my job as a CFI to sell the learner on the value of a good preflight inspection and risk mitigation.

I do this with samples of things found on preflight inspections and stories of what that failure has caused.

I feel turning a learner who doesn’t grasp how important risk mitigation is over to an incompetent instructor may not be best practice.

Your examples appear to demonstrate the weakness of that approach Wayne.

I am sure that there are recalcitrant learners who I can’t reach or learners who backslide after they earn their certificate.

I read of aviation accidents every day where the accident pilot likely knew better.

When I chose not to continue with a particular learner I do it privately.

I have not found value in public humiliation of a learner.
 

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
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Place a piece of tape over one of the pitot-static ports
Piece of tape over the pitot tube,
Remove the oil dipstick and place it in the baggage compartment
Remove one of the gas caps and place it on top of the nose wheel tire.

The majority of the students would catch these discrepancies and report.
I have sometimes used an almost correct but bogus preflight checlist for this purpose, which asked, for example, to check the elevator cables on an aircraft that had a pushrod instead. If that did not generate student questions and concern I knew I had issues to pursue. I like methods that do not leave the aircraft unairworthy if overlooked or inadvertently forgotten by the CFI. Accidental sabotage should be avoided.

I objected to a method once advanced by Rod Machado, using loose harware placed under a parked aircraft for the student to find and question. Intentionally creating a FOD risk on a ramp is a bad idea, which I emphasized to Mr. Machado by telling him about the $1000+ repair I needed on a J-2 prop blade after sucking up an AN bolt while taxiing on the ramp
 
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