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Heron

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Clear and present danger was about cocaine and Colombia/Bolivia and something the Prez did, based on real facts. Can´t remember russian involvement on that flick.
It is funny to watch you guys talking your stuff . . .ex military and all . . .
. . .and then comes the Super Citizen, more power to him . . .
Poor old Osama, all abandoned by his peers, not one single rpg was fired . . .no good plot for movies . . .
Heron
 

Resasi

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I have not made any jokes about this, but was moved to smile at one comment on 'famous last words.'

"I need a room full of SEALS about as much as I need a hole in my head."
 

Heron

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I am more afraid of a room full of politicians . . .have seen the carnage and the damage!
Heron
 

PR_Arecibo_DC

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First of all... I respect each of everyone opinion and mean no disrespect....

Is easy to just read or watch the news and make judgment on those that are somehow responsible for it...
I been down range many times and I've been in many situations where orders are given by higher echelon and is up to us in the field to carry those orders... But as few of you as veterans might know... The team leader in the field will try to carry the orders to the letter but always, always, as a Platoon leader or Section Sergent, a risk assessment would be carry and is up to that leader or NCO make a sound decision base on the safety of their troops...

That B.S. that higher officers are making decisions for the President...is just plain dumb...
I worked from the lowest level of the US Army all the way to the White House providing secure comms and security to VIP's... and I can tell you you are wrong... I am now a Consultant for the DoD and I can promise you that the day a Field Grade Officer decide to go rouge against higher directive... he would be stop on the spot... you talking about people that has given 20 or 30 years of their life to serve their country and you think that they will go gun-hoe just because the president is black or born somewhere else... who gives a f... the people of the USA pick him and we as Americans need to support him unconditionally.... I didn't vote for the guy...I vote for McCain... but I support him 300% until he step down... For example... We kill OBL, so lets be happy about the fact that a terrorist is dead and would not harm no one anymore... but then the people start coming with their conspiracy theory's and questioning our own government... You know how bad that looks in front of other nations... I wish you guys could speak multiple languages as I do and be with me on one of NATO meetings...you will love to go one on one with few of the NATO people when they start trash talking about the US... Trust me, I been there and I wish every time I could unload my side arm on those mofos...

Is hard for me to explain a lot of stuff on a way that will make more sense but I cant...

I was born in San Juan, Puerto Rico and my first language is Spanish and I am proud to be a puertorrican, but at the same time I am a proud American and I swear to protect this nation against all enemies, foreign or domestics... and I will do so until I Die... I served in combat and I got shoot many times and loss my right lung and almost my life... I will not hesitate, if the opportunity present to put back my uniform and go back to the field to stand and defend the USA. Huuaaa
 
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Heron

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Huhaaa indeed!
Good on you that still have the feeling.
Military feats are awsome, does not matter in wich nation and what they are defending, it comes all from the same source.
You done your job, congrats, enjoy what comes of it!
Peace.
Heron
 

RayPierce

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First of all... I respect each of everyone opinion and mean no disrespect....

Is easy to just read or watch the news and make judgment on those that are somehow responsible for it...
I been down range many times and I've been in many situations where orders are given by higher echelon and is up to us in the field to carry those orders... But as few of you as veterans might know... The team leader in the field will try to carry the orders to the letter but always, always, as a Platoon leader or Section Sergent, a risk assessment would be carry and is up to that leader or NCO make a sound decision base on the safety of their troops...

That B.S. that higher officers are making decisions for the President...is just plain dumb...
(snipped some text here)
First of all ...thank you for your service and sacrifice.

I'm going to hopefully convey my opinion in a way that does not offend.

Nowadays as a troop in the field you have to decide when you get an order whether it's a legal order. (remember LT. Calley and the My Lai Massacre)
I had a class entirely devoted to that subject.

Today you have to almost lawyer up before you turn the selector from "safe" to "fire" on a weapon you are carrying.

Fast forward: Eric Holder is investigating CIA officers for their roll in supposed torture of detainees at Gitmo and other countries facilities. These same CIA field operatives had full authority from the White House, Pentagon, CIA highers. They had lawyered up and got approval of what was and what was not "torture." Today these CIA operatives are broke and going broke from having to lawyer themselves up again. Eric Holder decided to investigate. Eric had better be careful if some later Presidents justice department decides to investigate him for the assassination of possibly unarmed OBL.

Fast forward again. Why has Eric Holder not stopped the "investigation"(witch hunt) of these operatives?
Use logic a little. It's okay to shoot a man above the left eye without trial before a jury.....BUT!...it's not okay to pour water up his nose to SAVE lives?

Let it go Eric Holder. Let them go. Let it go.
 

Heron

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Just get the truth out . . .for the vampires to feed on!
It is not a normal war, Geneva convention does not apply, do whatever you want and pay the consequences if you get caught.
Soldiers are guns for hire, they should not respond in court, their bosses are the ones!
Nurenberg has been silent for too long.
Heron
 

automan1223

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The Millitary is a "tool".

The Millitary is a "tool".

The millitary is a tool. Paid for by our tax dollars, to do the will of the political elite. Obama was voted into office by code pink and every American that thought he was going to do the "will of the people".

I btw did NOT vote for him......

The military is a hammer, a spear, an axe and a mace. It does not think, it does not sleep, it does not question orders. It does what it is told by morally depraved people with questionable objectives time and time again right or wrong. It has one mission and one mission only, and that is to KILL PEOPLE. It is a killing machine. Do I like killing. No, I do not.

It is the biggest business in the world consuming more dollars than any other budget item in the rest of the world. Period.

Maybe you guys have been smoking some of the same stuff these "heros" were. This case made the national news a while ago. These are the same clowns that were caught throwing puppies off of cliffs. It is OLD news and the case was outed by wikileaks, just like abu graib and the rest of the garbage that hides its off the wall b.s wrapped up in an American Flag.

While only "big" headlines grab our attention the facts of the day do not escape the victims of our occupation.

Your question do I hate the military.

Answer : No, I do not. It would be like saying I hate a set of wrenches or a set of hammers. We do not have a draft. People voluntarily sign up for duty in return for perceived and real benefits [so none of them have any right to pitch a bitch. ]

My point with posting those links is that while we may be led into thinking that B.L's death might bring a firestorm of reprisals, [and it very well might further enhancing the paranoia and security state, and more intrusive gropings by TSA ] our daily deeds over there have led to more misery and hatred towards us than 1000 dead Bin ladens could ever bring. And that is not safe for anyone. There will always be a new number 1 or number 2 to keep us busy blowing stuff up and killing people.



J

Is that true Jonathan? That you are not a fan of the military?
 

Resasi

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Jonathon I do not wish to attack you here, simply respond to your post and carry on the discourse.

"will of the people"
There are a lot of people and they do not all want the same thing .

A question. Do you have a gun? You may not, many people don't , but if you do why?

Not all people who have guns kill people. Some have them simply for protection.

Why do countries have an Army. Some, so that they can invade and conquer. Some for protection, yes there are countries that only do that Switzerland for example

A lot of your posts do seem to indicate, at least to me, a degree of fear of government, and possibly a somewhat enlarged belief in conspiracies.

Bad people exist. In any walk of life, profession, country, race or religion. That is part of life. Yes there are bad governments... and conspiracies. In the main, it is my belief that most people do try to do the right thing, and a lot of pols do try to represent the ideals that people elect them to uphold. Armies and police try to protect. Some succeed others do not, it is after all an imperfect world.


My point with posting those links is that while we may be led into thinking that B.L's death might bring a firestorm of reprisals, [and it very well might further enhancing the paranoia and security state, and more intrusive gropings by TSA ] our daily deeds over there have led to more misery and hatred towards us than 1000 dead Bin ladens could ever bring. And that is not safe for anyone. There will always be a new number 1 or number 2 to keep us busy blowing stuff up and killing people.
With regard to reprisals for OBL's death. He and AQ had already declared war on the US unless you had forgotten. They have been continually plotting and carrying out attacks since 9/11.

As for 'Over there', wherever you care to mention, is where attacks were/are planned, training was/is done, suicide bombers recruited, and hatred of the West and the US already existed.

In simple terms where is it preferable to fight an enemy who has attacked you? Where casualties are more likely to be yours, or where they are more likely to be his.

As for gropings by the TSA, would you rather be groped or blown up on the plane? There exists out there many suicide fanatics who's main reason for living is to go and kill a bunch of people for their idea of what their religion wants, and they are not very fussy just who they take with them. They have used planes in the past so bitch at them for precautions taken now.

They are by no means all Muslim extremists, but the majority are.

As for your comment
There will always be a new number 1 or number 2 to keep us busy blowing stuff up and killing people.
you are quite right. As long as humans are around that is what happens. Humans are an aggressive species and that is sadly part of what they are...and do.
 

Heron

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Leigh
Too simplistic . . .
There are 150 thousand unsolved murder cases in Brazil, that is worth only 3 years of killings. No war down here, it is only us getting acquainted . . .
Army has been and will always be the tool of the top crop, kings, tirants, presidents, not ever the people, it is a blatant lie. You gives your young and we will make them good killers, when thy get disgruntled we cut them loose and you, the people, deal with it!
IN time one will realise there is no protection when the focus fall upon your area and you will be assimilated or killed. Christian, Jew or Muslim, does not matter the religion, the ground where you stand does, specially if there are treasures underneath.
Killing for God is common to all religions and specially by Abrahan´s nations , all three!
You can tap dance around the matter as much as you can, but a school of death produces more medals and honors than all others. Glamourize the deed so more young naive people still standing the post . . .You need me on that wall!!!
Horschit!
Heron
 

WaspAir

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Ben and Gary you guys just made me realize one important thing I always wondered about.... I was always amazed how ignorant people are about their constitution in this country! And reading your comments it just hit me! There are two kinds of citizens here whom swore to uphold it. You are either a a member (or ex) of the military forces or you are like me a naturalized citizen and and we had to swear at our ceremony. We all had to know what is in it in order to pass our tests.... Funny how one IF he or she doesn't join any forces or being a native citizen never needs to even know what the constitution is. This privilege has been handed to them without even realizing it. Why would we expect them to uphold or fight for it? Again it shows so clearly that "things that are given are never as valued as the ones that are earned"!
There's a third kind, but you might not like it...

Lawyers.

They take courses on it, study it, get tested on it, and swear an oath when they're admitted to the bar, usually for both the Federal Constitution and the state constitution for each state in which they are permitted to practice. Every Federal Court they're admitted to makes them do it again.

There's plenty of ignorance (and enormous misconceptions) about what's in the Constitution, that's for sure. There have been surveys done over the years in which people on the street are presented with "voter petitions", without being told that they're actually the Bill of Rights, and it's amazing how many people will firmly oppose them.

Here in California kids are required to take a government class (full of constitutional material) to get a high school diploma, so even if they're not naturalized, don't join the military, don't practice law, or some combination of the three, they still get some exposure to what's in the document.
 

choppergabor

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There's a third kind, but you might not like it...

Lawyers.

They take courses on it, study it, get tested on it, and swear an oath when they're admitted to the bar, usually for both the Federal Constitution and the state constitution for each state in which they are permitted to practice. Every Federal Court they're admitted to makes them do it again.

There's plenty of ignorance (and enormous misconceptions) about what's in the Constitution, that's for sure. There have been surveys done over the years in which people on the street are presented with "voter petitions", without being told that they're actually the Bill of Rights, and it's amazing how many people will firmly oppose them.

Here in California kids are required to take a government class (full of constitutional material) to get a high school diploma, so even if they're not naturalized, don't join the military, don't practice law, or some combination of the three, they still get some exposure to what's in the document.
Haha Mark I am not an anti lawyer guy (although some trial lawyers.....make me wanna:puke:) ! But I do see their place in this society and a lot of those places are very positive indeed. I am delighted to hear the Californian practice of course and it is only due to my inapt information sources that I had generalized my comments about people not even caring about their constitutional rights and responsibilities. My very brief and limited experience down south was rather disappointing and I am just glad we still have enough people interested to keep this republic alive and well according to our founding father's fundamental ideas and their wisdom. But again in order to do so one needs to be aware of what they were :) Sadly that is taking a backseat and some considers the constitution a "living document" that can be changed to better fit one's ideology.....and that is a dangerous game. If it can be changed to fit one once it can be changed again and we don't know what the outcome of that would be if the direction of the change came from some total wackjob ..... who knows.....let's say someone who wanted to "fundamentally change America" or something like that......but that would probably never happen !!!!
 

Timchick

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The millitary is a tool. Paid for by our tax dollars, to do the will of the political elite. Obama was voted into office by code pink and every American that thought he was going to do the "will of the people".

I btw did NOT vote for him......

The military is a hammer, a spear, an axe and a mace. It does not think, it does not sleep, it does not question orders. It does what it is told by morally depraved people with questionable objectives time and time again right or wrong. It has one mission and one mission only, and that is to KILL PEOPLE. It is a killing machine. Do I like killing. No, I do not.

It is the biggest business in the world consuming more dollars than any other budget item in the rest of the world. Period.

Maybe you guys have been smoking some of the same stuff these "heros" were. This case made the national news a while ago. These are the same clowns that were caught throwing puppies off of cliffs. It is OLD news and the case was outed by wikileaks, just like abu graib and the rest of the garbage that hides its off the wall b.s wrapped up in an American Flag.

While only "big" headlines grab our attention the facts of the day do not escape the victims of our occupation.

Your question do I hate the military.

Answer : No, I do not. It would be like saying I hate a set of wrenches or a set of hammers. We do not have a draft. People voluntarily sign up for duty in return for perceived and real benefits [so none of them have any right to pitch a bitch. ]

My point with posting those links is that while we may be led into thinking that B.L's death might bring a firestorm of reprisals, [and it very well might further enhancing the paranoia and security state, and more intrusive gropings by TSA ] our daily deeds over there have led to more misery and hatred towards us than 1000 dead Bin ladens could ever bring. And that is not safe for anyone. There will always be a new number 1 or number 2 to keep us busy blowing stuff up and killing people.



J
The claim was you weren't a fan of the military. Nobody said anything about hate except you.

As far as the links you provided. Outed by wikileaks? Yes, the guys in the Rolling Stones article are old news but they were being prosecuted for wrongdoing without any assistance from wikileaks. The military doesn't encourage the actions those soldiers participated in and prosecutes those involved.

The military also provides another important service you forgot to mention. The military is also a shield that has protected many Americans for many years. You may not think the military is a necessity but without it your life would be very different today.
 

Heron

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There is one shield that owns the world and most military power . . .
What about the other military Tim, those who done nothing and still get in the way of peril because some military is on the prowl?
In the end it will be us against the military or para military . . .your backyard dog will go rogue if not gone by now!
Heron
 

WaspAir

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Reminds me of the scene in Clear and Present Danger when the Ruskie Pres says he ordered the shelling of his own people so as to not look like he had lost control.
Clear and present danger was about cocaine and Colombia/Bolivia and something the Prez did, based on real facts. Can´t remember russian involvement on that flick.
The reason you don't remember the Russian in Clear and Present Danger is because it's the wrong movie; the Russian bit was in The Sum of All Fears. Another Tom Clancy "Jack Ryan" story, but with Ben Affleck instead of Harrison Ford. Ford's a highly talented actor, while Affleck was always very kind to his mother, if you get my drift. If you can't say anything nice about a guy . . .
 

Heron

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You are correct . . .
There is Patriotic Games
REd October with Alec Baldwin
Sum of all Fears Ben Afleck
Clear . . .danger
any more?
Heron
 

automan1223

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tracking the coverups.

tracking the coverups.

Tim,

Face facts, the government and the military have covered up a long list of egregious acts by our service people. True, this only example was prior to wikileaks, however it would take a new thread to properly list all the ones that did get outed.

You watch too much Army Wives.

I also do not mince words trying to be p.c. ....fan, hate, same difference.

Shields......... Do not get me started. If we were not fracking with every single little country in the world all the time. We would not need the worlds largest military. Again, it goes back to root cause, which is not part of the discussion here. I will not waste the effort....Too many zombies.....

The claim was you weren't a fan of the military. Nobody said anything about hate except you.

As far as the links you provided. Outed by wikileaks? Yes, the guys in the Rolling Stones article are old news but they were being prosecuted for wrongdoing without any assistance from wikileaks. The military doesn't encourage the actions those soldiers participated in and prosecutes those involved.

The military also provides another important service you forgot to mention. The military is also a shield that has protected many Americans for many years. You may not think the military is a necessity but without it your life would be very different today.
 
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RotorTom

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FUNNY THING AUTOMAN ... I consider you a zombie. ALL of your so-called suspicions and "original" thought comes from the mind-press of fools printing conspiracies on every turn. Every thing to you is "not what it seems". Wow. How original?

It's easy to make innuendo at every turn and suspect foul play. It takes no facts, no research, no effort. Just point a finger and call everyone else blind. Who is really the blind one?
 

automan1223

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Facts are facts...101.

Facts are facts...101.

Rotor Tom...."It's easy to make innuendo at every turn and suspect foul play. It takes no facts, no research, no effort. Just point a finger and call everyone else blind. Who is really the blind one? "

Tom, I do not consider myself an authority on any particular subject, I do read a lot of different material. For those of us out there whose mommas did not raise no fools..... If it quacks like a duck and smells like a duck. We call it a duck. When I was younger I tried to pass off b.s. stories to my parents even had some of my friends try to cover for me every once in a while.... At one point I thought I could pull the wool over their eyes with just about any story I came up with. However I was the foolish one as time and circumstance proved I was the idiot kid trying to con his parents...

Now I am the elder and the kids are trying to pass of the same cock and bull stories as "news" and facts. Come on Tom, didn't your parents teach you the old adage,

"believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see"..

If you feel comfortable believing incredible stories, minus, photos, videos, live person accounts, all delivered from sources that are known liars, cheats, thieves, and murderers with nothing more than million dollar pretty faces to back them up in high definition studios.... saying, yep, a huh, that's the way it went down folks, oooohhhhhhhh.....

then I have an entire planet to sell you. . Be my guest believe away. It is a free country....

here is something hot off the press to address what you and others like you are suffering from..

http://www.henrymakow.com/conspiracy.html

Why Do People Resist Conspiracy Concept?

May 15, 2011

Dear Dr. Makow,

I'm fed up with family, friends, and colleagues whose brains are too tiny to understand human nature and the quest for power. I wrote this, and I'm sharing it with you.

by Mike Parker.........................
 
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