New RAF 2000 build

Mike Leimetter

Mike Leimetter
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
90
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Aircraft
2005 RAF 2000 (Building)
Total Flight Time
10 gyro, 100 fw
That should work. If you want another idea I tried using the 2 original mounting holes for the landing gear, and put a pump sized p-clip in both (so 2 clips per pump), but had the 2 clips opposing each other. This allowed the pump to go in at about a 45degree angle pointing aft at the bottom of the pump. The hose out the top goes up to the cabin wall, well clear of the control rods, and I tee'd them together up by the motor.
Thanks Grevis not a bad thought. I originally tried using the original gear holes. But just couldn’t get it out of the way of the control rods, never thought about tilting the pumps. Wasn’t sure if the needed to be vertical or what.
 

Mike Leimetter

Mike Leimetter
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
90
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Aircraft
2005 RAF 2000 (Building)
Total Flight Time
10 gyro, 100 fw
Howdy all! Hope this finds you all happy and healthy! I have a question regarding engine monitoring. Which parameters absolutely need to be monitored on a Subaru, which are ”nice to have”. And which, if any, don’t really matter? I’m adding an EMS to my panel and want to know which sensors to purchase. The obvious ones are oil temp/pressure, water temp, fuel pressure/flow/level and volts. What about CHT and EGT? And anything else.
 

Waldo

Newbie
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Messages
4
Location
VA
Aircraft
Mooney, RAF 2000
Total Flight Time
3600
Mike,
There's not much point in monitoring CHT on water cooled engine. Coolant temp takes the place of that. Also, I don't think EGT is going to tell you much either on an engine you can't adjust mixture on. If you have the fuel injected Subaru the ECU will adjust mixture automatically based on many things including the O2 sensor. You might want to monitor Amps as well.

Matt
 

Mike Leimetter

Mike Leimetter
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
90
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Aircraft
2005 RAF 2000 (Building)
Total Flight Time
10 gyro, 100 fw
Mike,
There's not much point in monitoring CHT on water cooled engine. Coolant temp takes the place of that. Also, I don't think EGT is going to tell you much either on an engine you can't adjust mixture on. If you have the fuel injected Subaru the ECU will adjust mixture automatically based on many things including the O2 sensor. You might want to monitor Amps as well.

Matt
Thanks Matt! Pretty much my thought process also. Why spend extra money on something that’s not necessary. The only thing I could think of was if I have a rough running engine I might see what cylinder is causing the problem but otherwise not much good.
 

Waldo

Newbie
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Messages
4
Location
VA
Aircraft
Mooney, RAF 2000
Total Flight Time
3600
Well I guess if you put an EGT on each cylinder that might be good for trouble shooting, but it wouldn't do you much good in the air since you can't adjust anything but throttle.
 

Mike Leimetter

Mike Leimetter
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
90
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Aircraft
2005 RAF 2000 (Building)
Total Flight Time
10 gyro, 100 fw
Well I guess if you put an EGT on each cylinder that might be good for trouble shooting, but it wouldn't do you much good in the air since you can't adjust anything but throttle.
Yea I’m not sure it’s worth it at this time. Can be added very easily at a later date with the system I’ll have.
 

grevis

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
53
Location
Hamilton, New Zealand
Aircraft
Mosquito XE285, RAF2000(Building)
Hi Mike, some ideas from my build.
I'm keeping the engine monitoring fairly minimum. I will be trying to run an ECU with fuel injection.
On the dash I will have engine rpm, water temp, oil pressure, voltage. Then I will try an O2 sensor separate to the dash, maybe only for initial tuning.

Some tips:
Oil pressure sensor - lots of people put in a sender with npt thread (1/8-27) but thats wrong for the japanese block. VDO do senders with the right thread part number like VDO 360-081 with 1/8-28BSP thread (or R1/8). The whole part might be VDO 360-081-032-057C, but just check the thread is listed right.

Water temp sensor - Since I have an ECU the factory water temp sensor is wired to that. I found another water temp sensor that can fit in the next spot where the original radiator fan switch was installed. The part is a Koso P1/8X28. It took a little time to get my MGL instrument calibration worked out to match what the ECU was seeing, but not too difficult.

Gary
 

Greg Vos

Active Member
Joined
May 26, 2019
Messages
452
Location
Cape Town
Aircraft
R44/22 H269/300 MD 500 Magni (all); Xenon RST; DTA; ELA; MTO Trojan
Total Flight Time
Stoped counting at 2000
Well I guess if you put an EGT on each cylinder that might be good for trouble shooting, but it wouldn't do you much good in the air since you can't adjust anything but throttle.
Agree with you to a point, having EGT on each header reflected will tell you in advance if the bank is getting hot (say above 900) this will alert you to consider coming back on the throttle and consider landing before the situation gets out of shape agree without in flight mixture there is little you can do about it
 

Mike Leimetter

Mike Leimetter
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
90
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Aircraft
2005 RAF 2000 (Building)
Total Flight Time
10 gyro, 100 fw
Hi Mike, some ideas from my build.
I'm keeping the engine monitoring fairly minimum. I will be trying to run an ECU with fuel injection.
On the dash I will have engine rpm, water temp, oil pressure, voltage. Then I will try an O2 sensor separate to the dash, maybe only for initial tuning.

Some tips:
Oil pressure sensor - lots of people put in a sender with npt thread (1/8-27) but thats wrong for the japanese block. VDO do senders with the right thread part number like VDO 360-081 with 1/8-28BSP thread (or R1/8). The whole part might be VDO 360-081-032-057C, but just check the thread is listed right.

Water temp sensor - Since I have an ECU the factory water temp sensor is wired to that. I found another water temp sensor that can fit in the next spot where the original radiator fan switch was installed. The part is a Koso P1/8X28. It took a little time to get my MGL instrument calibration worked out to match what the ECU was seeing, but not too difficult.

Gary
Thanks Gary. Lots to think about. I’ll be using the MGL Stratomaster EMS which uses an RDAC in the back to wire everything in to and a small paired wire goes to the dash. I’ll be able to add anything fairly easily at anytime. Now I have to figure out where all these sensors go on the engine lol. Also, can someone take a picture of their duel fuel pump system and where the hoses go please. Instructions are not clear. I know the top on the left goes to the engine input left, bottom ones go to the cabin tank.
 

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Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Staff member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
17,156
Location
Nipomo,California
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Givens Predator
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2400+ in rotorcraft
Things are looking good Mike.

I am not a fan of that type of screw clamps preferring the aviation type where the slots don’t go all the way through.

I have seen problems with the plastic filters. I see the bumper so I know you have thought about abrasion. A standoff on the hose might be more effective and a metal filter is more resistant to abrasion. In my opinion any filter should not be hard up against metal.
 

grevis

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
53
Location
Hamilton, New Zealand
Aircraft
Mosquito XE285, RAF2000(Building)
Eric, by that I mean I have an O2 sensor and a stand alone display, and at this stage I am only temporarily mounting it. Once I do some ground runs and get into tuning I will consider if I need a permanent O2 sensor install, if I want an O2 sensor connected to the ECU full time in closed loop etc...

Mike, I think the outlet from the fuel pumps can be joined/Tee'd together at any suitable spot between the pumps and the engine.

Also like Vance I'm not a big fan of the cheap type hose clamps, but my this case I used the automotive fuel injection specific type that have an extended tang going under the slots.

Gary
 

grevis

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
53
Location
Hamilton, New Zealand
Aircraft
Mosquito XE285, RAF2000(Building)
Mike, here is a photo of my fuel pump install, and since my outlet hoses from the pumps are either side of the mast I joined them up by the engine mount.

Something else to note in this picture vs your build, see the size of the rodend on the pitch control rod. Its a high strength version replacing the original in the RAF kit. Kolibri did a good write up here on the forum about replacing critical rodends with quality known brands.

Gary

20220206_082152_small.jpg
 

Mike Leimetter

Mike Leimetter
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
90
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Aircraft
2005 RAF 2000 (Building)
Total Flight Time
10 gyro, 100 fw
Eric, by that I mean I have an O2 sensor and a stand alone display, and at this stage I am only temporarily mounting it. Once I do some ground runs and get into tuning I will consider if I need a permanent O2 sensor install, if I want an O2 sensor connected to the ECU full time in closed loop etc...

Mike, I think the outlet from the fuel pumps can be joined/Tee'd together at any suitable spot between the pumps and the engine.

Also like Vance I'm not a big fan of the cheap type hose clamps, but my this case I used the automotive fuel injection specific type that have an extended tang going under the slots.

Gary
Things are looking good Mike.

I am not a fan of that type of screw clamps preferring the aviation type where the slots don’t go all the way through.

I have seen problems with the plastic filters. I see the bumper so I know you have thought about abrasion. A standoff on the hose might be more effective and a metal filter is more resistant to abrasion. In my opinion any filter should not be hard up against metal.
Thanks Vance I agree. It’s a temp mount until I can get some of the larger hose mounts and then it will not be up against anything. I got the Fram G2 filter because that’s what the book called for. If there is something better that’s comparable I’m more than happy to upgrade. There’s so many different filters out there I don’t want to get the wrong type. Also, the clamps will be replaced with avia style when practicable. I appreciate all your input that’s why I’m here.
 

Mike Leimetter

Mike Leimetter
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
90
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Aircraft
2005 RAF 2000 (Building)
Total Flight Time
10 gyro, 100 fw
Mike, here is a photo of my fuel pump install, and since my outlet hoses from the pumps are either side of the mast I joined them up by the engine mount.

Something else to note in this picture vs your build, see the size of the rodend on the pitch control rod. Its a high strength version replacing the original in the RAF kit. Kolibri did a good write up here on the forum about replacing critical rodends with quality known brands.

Gary

View attachment 1153981
Thanks Gary,
I know the bottom outlets get teed together does the top also? Regarding the rod end on the control tube, I haven’t changed the size of the rod end, but it has been replaced with a Heim brand. Maybe it’s not evident in the picture. I have 4 rod ends to replace yet and those are the engine mounts. Everything else has been replaced with the Heim brand.
 

Mike Leimetter

Mike Leimetter
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
90
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Aircraft
2005 RAF 2000 (Building)
Total Flight Time
10 gyro, 100 fw
On a happy note, I installed the seat tank today while the wife installed the new LED landing lights! That seat tank is a pain in the butt! I put the seat cushion on and checked the fit and my legs are almost completely extended when pushing full right or left pedal. Wonder if I should move the floor pan closer while it’s still accessible. Of course that means readjusting all the steering rods etc. also, anyone know where to get the 3/8” threaded rod end inserts (bungs) that RAF uses, or something comparable? I’ve searched high and low with no luck. I emailed RAFSA and they are backordered on them And won’t tell me where else I can get them.

2/5. Note: I spoke to Ebon at RAFSA today regarding the rod end inserts. He thought I was looking for rod ends. Told me he is back ordered on them from the states. I explained that I was looking for the rod end inserts not the rod ends (have switched over to Heim). Apparently they machine the inserts in house, so I will be getting a quote tomorrow for those. No wonder I couldn’t find them online 🙄
 

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grevis

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
53
Location
Hamilton, New Zealand
Aircraft
Mosquito XE285, RAF2000(Building)
Thanks Gary,
I know the bottom outlets get teed together does the top also? Regarding the rod end on the control tube, I haven’t changed the size of the rod end, but it has been replaced with a Heim brand. Maybe it’s not evident in the picture. I have 4 rod ends to replace yet and those are the engine mounts. Everything else has been replaced with the Heim brand.
Hi Mike, yes the top of the pumps (pump outlet) will be tee'd together into a single line to run up to supply fuel to the engine. From your photo you have space to do it straight after the pump across the top of the tail boom.

And you've got the wife working on the machine too, great stuff. Most guys just get a frown as they head out to the shed.

Gary
 

Mike Leimetter

Mike Leimetter
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
90
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Aircraft
2005 RAF 2000 (Building)
Total Flight Time
10 gyro, 100 fw
Hi Mike, yes the top of the pumps (pump outlet) will be tee'd together into a single line to run up to supply fuel to the engine. From your photo you have space to do it straight after the pump across the top of the tail boom.

And you've got the wife working on the machine too, great stuff. Most guys just get a frown as they head out to the shed.

Gary
Lol well I figured it’s a good way to keep the frown upside down. She actually enjoys helping and is going to help me with the fuel return line and fuel filler hose. Thanks for the input on the fuel pumps. I’m assuming by tying them together that having a duel system is for redundancy? Makes sense in case one craps out. The fuel return line goes from the right side of the engine injector system into the cabin to the tank correct?
 

grevis

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
53
Location
Hamilton, New Zealand
Aircraft
Mosquito XE285, RAF2000(Building)
Yes the return goes back to the tank. Where from on the engine depends on what setup you have for manifold etc... I am trying to use an early manifold off a fuel injected EJ20 motor that is black plastic, and that has both inlet and outlet hard metal pipes on the left.

Gary
 

Mike Leimetter

Mike Leimetter
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
90
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Aircraft
2005 RAF 2000 (Building)
Total Flight Time
10 gyro, 100 fw
Well now that I’ve figured out that I missed part of video #5 the duel fuel pump issue has been resolved. Yes, I’m a dumbass lol. Today we mounted the fuel filler pipe. Was going to mount the fuel return hose but I can find the t piece so I’ll have to get one tomorrow. Hope you all are well and out there having fun!
 

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