New Propeller for AutoGyro MTO Free

bartobrien

Monarch Gyro Owner
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May 10, 2016
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Napa
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Monarch Butterfly 582
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I have a AutoGyro MTO Free (no body/windshield) with Rotax 914. Looking to upgrade from stock HTC prop. Goal is greater fuel efficiency rather than performance. I like to take long distance trips and have accurate GHP digital fuel meter. Typicall cruise at 55 knots (uncomfortable to go much faster due to open cockpit) and burn about 3.0 to 3.2 GPH at that speed. Does anyone have any opinions on whether the Sensensich, Duc Windspoon, or Lugo would be the best prop at those speeds on a draggy aircraft?

Also the current HTC prop is 68" in diameter. Based on the bigger prop is better theory, I was thinking about going to 72" but would only have 1" of clearance with the keel. Again, advice and comments greatly appreciated.
 

wolfy

Active Member
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Dec 19, 2013
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266
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western australia
I don't have a answer sorry but the figures you have stated of around 12 lph is excellent fuel efficiency.
I used to work on 15lph averaged over a days flying, with a 912 uls and open frame single place.

wolfy
 

schmoe90

Magni M-16 Sport Pilot
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Roseville, CA
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Can you change the pitch of your prop? What RPM are you turning at that speed? My 914 powered Magni M-16 (with whatever prop that came with) is turning around 4200 - 4300 RPM at ~55kt, and my GRT EIS says I'm burning about 2.5GPH at that RPM (not sure that I totally believe it, but it's probably not far off.)
 

fara

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
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Those figures for fuel burn for a draggy open frame gyro seem right to me.
RPM are meaningless till you use them to calculate power being used
3.0 GPH means you are using roughly 45 - 47% power of 912ULS as an approximate using fuel burn guide

The reasons to change HTC prop are not to get way more efficiency but to get a properly constructed prop.
At such a slow speed you are not going to gain any efficiency from Lugo/Kool, Aero, Kiev, Warp Drive or Duc.
HTC does start to delaminate easily but if yours isn't doing that on every 25 hour inspection, I would leave it be. Once you see it starting to do that, I can recommend Kiev 183 prop that we use in AR-1 but at 55 knots you are not going to save much more fuel than 45% power
 

fara

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
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Can you change the pitch of your prop? What RPM are you turning at that speed? My 914 powered Magni M-16 (with whatever prop that came with) is turning around 4200 - 4300 RPM at ~55kt, and my GRT EIS says I'm burning about 2.5GPH at that RPM (not sure that I totally believe it, but it's probably not far off.)
I doubt that. Those fuel burn numbers at that speed would be from a good double surface trike wing not a rotor
 

loftus

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I changed to Sensenich on my regular MTO. My two cents:
Increased rate of climb but not specifically tested.
For any given airspeed engine turned at 400 rpm less.
Pin system for pitch angle is fantastic. Used pitch #2 of 6
Significantly quieter than the standard prop.
Stock prop started to delaminate at less than 100 hours, no issues noted on Sensenich with over 100 hours when sold.
 

bartobrien

Monarch Gyro Owner
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May 10, 2016
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Napa
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Monarch Butterfly 582
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I changed to Sensenich on my regular MTO. My two cents:
Increased rate of climb but not specifically tested.
For any given airspeed engine turned at 400 rpm less.
Pin system for pitch angle is fantastic. Used pitch #2 of 6
Significantly quieter than the standard prop.
Stock prop started to delaminate at less than 100 hours, no issues noted on Sensenich with over 100 hours when sold.
Thank you. I just ordered the new Sensetich 71" pusher prop - they said this was slighly higher efficiency and thrust but didn't have the pin system. The pin prop was only available in 68" and I have read that the larger the prop, the better for cruise efficiency.
 

bartobrien

Monarch Gyro Owner
Joined
May 10, 2016
Messages
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Napa
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Monarch Butterfly 582
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Can you change the pitch of your prop? What RPM are you turning at that speed? My 914 powered Magni M-16 (with whatever prop that came with) is turning around 4200 - 4300 RPM at ~55kt, and my GRT EIS says I'm burning about 2.5GPH at that RPM (not sure that I totally believe it, but it's probably not far off.)
I am turning about 4000 - 4100 at 55 kts. Fairly coarse pitch as the engine doesn't get much above 5,000 rpm at WOT. I do some mountain flying so the coarse pitch is useful at 10,000 ft when the engine turns 5,500 WOT. I will play with pitch on new prop. I have ordered both a DUC windspoon and a Sensitech both with the ability to return them if I don't like them, so I will be able to fully evaluate both props. I have previously tried a e-prop 6 bladed prop but the fuel efficiency was about 20% less and didn't really notice much reduction in noise or increase in performance.
 

fara

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
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Thank you. I just ordered the new Sensetich 71" pusher prop - they said this was slighly higher efficiency and thrust but didn't have the pin system. The pin prop was only available in 68" and I have read that the larger the prop, the better for cruise efficiency.
I hope you did not get the wide body blade prop that is 71 inch. That 3 blade prop is meant for 915iS. That may be too much for a 912ULS. I have one of those for a 915iS AR-1 we are making. I think its MOI would be too much
 

bartobrien

Monarch Gyro Owner
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I hope you did not get the wide body blade prop that is 71 inch. That 3 blade prop is meant for 915iS. That may be too much for a 912ULS. I have one of those for a 915iS AR-1 we are making. I think its MOI would be too much
The salesman said it was actually a bit narrower than the previous 3 blade version and had a square tip. I didn't write down the model number. I have a 914 on my gyro.
 

Chook

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Dec 1, 2019
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Perth Australia
My ELA came originally with a DUC windspoon with corrosion issues in the root ferrule. Emailed DUC with pics and they never returned with a response. Any moisture near the aluminium ferrule and the carbon fibre blade which are both conductors of electricity will obviously cause this electrolysis effect. They also recommend that the plastic hub gets checked/replaced at 500 hours. Living in Australia I won't go near them again.

Regards........Chook.

Just an addendum if you look carefully there is a crack in the ferrule on the bottom left hand side where the black meets the gold. 2 out of the 3 blades had these cracks so I condemned the prop.
 

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Strike

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Induno olona
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рпочему бы вам не попробовать NR-prop 175? отличный легкий винт, с отличными характеристиками, он тихий. По правильной цене! Дык windspoon советую оставить его в покое !!
 

bartobrien

Monarch Gyro Owner
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Monarch Butterfly 582
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My ELA came originally with a DUC windspoon with corrosion issues in the root ferrule. Emailed DUC with pics and they never returned with a response. Any moisture near the aluminium ferrule and the carbon fibre blade which are both conductors of electricity will obviously cause this electrolysis effect. They also recommend that the plastic hub gets checked/replaced at 500 hours. Living in Australia I won't go near them again.

Regards........Chook.

Just an addendum if you look carefully there is a crack in the ferrule on the bottom left hand side where the black meets the gold. 2 out of the 3 blades had these cracks so I condemned the prop.
Thank you! Good warning to look at for this if I keep the DUC. Supposed to be delivered today from France.
 

bartobrien

Monarch Gyro Owner
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Napa
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Monarch Butterfly 582
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Can you change the pitch of your prop? What RPM are you turning at that speed? My 914 powered Magni M-16 (with whatever prop that came with) is turning around 4200 - 4300 RPM at ~55kt, and my GRT EIS says I'm burning about 2.5GPH at that RPM (not sure that I totally believe it, but it's probably not far off.)
I am turning about 4100 - 4200 at 55 knots. Best fuel economy I get in cruise is about 2.8 GPH.
 

loftus

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Thank you. I just ordered the new Sensetich 71" pusher prop - they said this was slighly higher efficiency and thrust but didn't have the pin system. The pin prop was only available in 68" and I have read that the larger the prop, the better for cruise efficiency.
I agree with Fara, be sure the prop is not too large.
 

bartobrien

Monarch Gyro Owner
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So the winner is the new DUC 68" Windspoon prop with adapter for 914. Improved my fuel economy by 20% over the standard HTC prop. Have it set for 5300 RPM WOT in level flight. Now burning 2.6 gph at 55 knots at 2500 feet. Great prop. Cancelled the orders for the Sensenich and PowerFin - doubt any prop could do much better at my speed range. Amazed at the difference. Use MGL fuel meter gauge.
 
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Strike

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[QUOTE = "bartobrien, post: 1156284, membro: 21924"]
Quindi il vincitore è il nuovo propulsore DUC 68 "Windspoon con adattatore per 914. Migliorata la mia economia di carburante del 30% rispetto al prop standard HTC. Hanno impostato 5300 RPM WOT in volo livellato. Ora brucia 2,4 gph a 55 nodi a 2500 piedi Ottimo prop. Annullato gli ordini per Sensenich e PowerFin - dubito che qualsiasi prop potrebbe fare molto meglio alla mia gamma di velocità. Stupito dalla differenza. Usa il misuratore del carburante MGL.
[/CITAZIONE]
пКак вы думаете, duc windspoon - лучший пропеллер из доступных? Это значит, что вы никогда ничего не пробовали! Как HTC, так и duc windspoon пропускают около 30/35 кг тяги по сравнению с NR !!!
 
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