New PAL-V gyroplane Fly/Drive youtube video

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It's been known for a while the powerplant of choice is dual 912iS engines. The engine panel gave it away a long time ago. As time goes on, more questions than answers with the PalV and I'll continue to wish them the best. Very ambitious project.
 

Martin W.

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It's been known for a while the powerplant of choice is dual 912iS engines. The engine panel gave it away a long time ago. As time goes on, more questions than answers with the PalV and I'll continue to wish them the best. Very ambitious project.
Thanks for that ... but brings another question .... is one 912is to fly and one to drive ??? ... if so , we are still looking at 100hp at the prop which (to me) would not be enough.

One picture I saw from the rear (cowl opening) looked like the prop was mounted directly on an engine ..... so it does not appear they use both engines for flight through a common jackshaft .... but I could be wrong.

I agree it is an ambitious project ... and I am not trying to be a nay-sayer ..... I think it is mostly a case of talented dreamer-designers who keep facing the reality that ... "it aint that easy" ... otherwise it would be flying .
 

Martin W.

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Just a side note about power required
Around post 72 I speculated a gyro will carry between 10 to 12 pounds per horsepower
(helicopters are generally 10 lbs per hp)

The certified McCulloch J2
1600 lbs gross @ 180 hp = 8.8 lbs per hp

Air & Space 18A does a bit better
1800 lbs gross @180 hp = 10 lbs per hp

They both have the added weight of the jump components , otherwise have reasonably light weight aluminum fuselage.

My rough armchair calculations for modern gyros may be as high as 12 pounds per hp .
So being as generous as possible , I estimate the PAL-V would have to be maximum of 1200 lbs gross weight to fly with the 100 hp Rotax 912is

I am not an expert in those calculations so all opinions and corrections are welcome

ps: ... Would also be interested if any pilots here have approximate weights per horsepower for their personal machines.

----------------
EDIT to add .... my estimation shows the Titanium Autogyro is one of the highest gross weights with the lightest modern components .... gross 1268 lbs @ 115 hp = 11.02 lbs per hp
 
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Tyger

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I think I remember seeing somewhere that it would use separate engines for driving and flying, but doesn't a second Rotax (if that's accurate) seem like an odd choice for driving??
 
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With a twin 912iS set up and the obvious increase in weight for such a complex 2 seater gyro, I would put money on the guess that both engines are used for flying and only one for driving. 200hp would be sufficient for this kind of weight and drag for the entire flight envelope. The side benefit of 2 engines would be that once aloft at altitude 1 engine should be able to maintain level flight at lower density altitudes less than ~4,000MSL and at higher altitudes allow a gradual drift down (ie extended glide if operating over regions that are above the critical engine out ceiling).
 

Tyger

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That sure does seem complex, having two piston engines driving one propeller. How might they be planning to accomplish that?
Come to that, I have a hard time imagining a Rotax engine will meet road emissions standards... even assuming unleaded fuel only.
 
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Tyger

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Yep, would definitely have to count as a "motorcycle" in the US, not least for crash standards (i.e. about none). Just don't be putting any 100LL in it! ☺️
 

Martin W.

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Yep, would definitely have to count as a "motorcycle" in the US, not least for crash standards (i.e. about none). Just don't be putting any 100LL in it! ☺️

Yes .... a 3 wheel vehicle under 1500 pounds can be registered under the motorcycle category .... and like you said , emissions and crash standards are non existent , other than maybe compulsory helmet use in some jurisdictions.
 

Tyger

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Motorcycles do now have Federal exhaust standards...
Also, "A motorcycle is any motor vehicle with a headlight, taillight, and stoplight, and having two or three wheels and a curb mass less than or equal to 793 kg (1,749 lb). (The limit was 680 kg, or 1,499 lb prior to the 1998 model year.)
A motorcycle is excluded from the [exhaust] standards if it has a displacement of less than 50 cc (3.1 cubic inches) or if with a 80 kg (176 lb) driver it cannot start from a dead stop using only the engine or exceed a speed of 40 km/h (25 mph) on a level, paved surface."
 

DavePA11

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Flying motorcycles or cars is still a stupid idea. But if you have money to throw away then fine. The multi rotors designs will most likely be the first design to work after deploying for delivering stuff. I think once the multirotor designs are proven for delivery packages and food then people can be added for delivery.
 

fara

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I think we will develop a flying car but if we do it will actually fly
 

loftus

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It seems to me that designing any vehicle for both land and air travel would have to be a VTOL design to be of any real practical use. If one needs to find an airstrip for takeoff and landing, then most people are better off driving to the airstrip, flying a purpose built flying machine, and then getting an Uber or renting a car on arrival.
Actually the future of self-driving cars and shared transportation, obviates the need to have an aircraft / car that can both drive and fly. Simply transfering from your shared car /aircraft at takeoff and destination points makes a whole lot more sense. The original purpose and convenience of a flying car is now a mute point.
 
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