New name, same guy

RotorTom

Member
Now that I sold my Xenon, I thought it appropriate to change my forum name.

So, from now on ... when you see RotorTom, it will be the former XenonTom.
 

RotorTom

Member
On that subject ...

On that subject ...

And while I'm on the topic of selling my Xenon ... I have some very interesting observations.

I could have sold my Xenon 10 times! That's how much interest there was in this fine gyro.

Now for the interesting observations ...

In each case, the prospective buyers were new to gyros.

In each case, they were frustrated at the incredible lengths they needed to go through to get instruction. It amounted to a lot of travel on their part or paying instructors to come to them ... which would include paying a daily rate, plus hotel, plus meals and expenses!

While some gyro buyers (and builders) are willing to make this incredibile financial and time-consuming sacrifice, I can't imagine that most people are willing to do it.

AND THAT IS WHY THE SPORT WILL DIE. It has nothing to do with a lack of interest. People are intrigued with gyros, people love the way they look, they love the way they fly and they love the simplicity and freedom they provide.

I believe that if instruction was more readily available and if legal two-place gyros were around for instruction, the sport would explode!

No sport could undergo the lack of instructors and training machines and survive. It is amazing that gyros have managed to do it this long.

WHat can be done to stop this spiraling trend into the abyss?
 

Resasi

Gold Supporter
More people becoming instructors.

Not being facetious, already trying, and not for the money either.
 

All_In

Gold Supporter
A Tom by any other name is still a smart and good man.

Some of my first posts were the same observations Tom.
I knew then that the only way to have my family and friends join me in this is if I setup an FBO. It has already taken over two years of going to fly-in's observing how different pilots fly various gyroplanes, getting rides, flying a few, and asking questions here towards that goal for me to be able to make an intelligent decision based on facts and not speculation of which is the best aircraft for So Ca and the way I wish to fly.

This has taken so much longer than anything else I've done, but I've enjoyed the fly-in's and fun!!

Things are starting to happen now! We have a FW instructor and a Cessna 150 and Cherokee 180 to rent, and just found a gyroplane instructor without a gyroplane.

Our next chapter 31 meeting will be regarding funding, rebuilding, and the rental structure for members to rent the Hollmann as a trainer until my two-place Genesis is delivered. Those members with money can pay for parts and have it credited to their account and those without will be offered to pay with sweat equity. Anyone working on her will build up a credit in his or her account towards renting and flying her. Anyone who joins PRA 31 can rent any of our aircraft.

I know many don't like FW'er however if we do not diversify it will take years to grow compared to opening our party group to anyone who flies anything and is a great way to expose FW pilots to gyroplanes. I know that once I give many of my pilot friends a ride in a two place Genesis with easy access to rentals and instructions they are going to want to play.

Anyway, I feel as if we have stopped crawling, made the first baby steps, and soon may be walking… I wish we were already off and running but I have really enjoyed the trip and your company, thank you for all you have taught me.
 
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Heron

Platinum Member
The blame game!
that is what we have to play untill it exaust itself.
More of everything is needed.
Less amateur stuff.
Flying Clubs and getting the regular flight schools to try out, which means reaching out to the regulars.
Numbers!
Heron
Happy New Year to you and Age to gyros
 

dick

Senior Member
love the way they fly and they love the simplicity and freedom they provide.

It is amazing that gyros have managed to do it this long.
For most of us, It's a money thing. It is and always has been the most affordable way to get in to the air & try to live our dream as safely as now you know the Gyro can fly under most all weather conditions compaired to other light sport. You"ve been with me out at FTG for nearly what? 20 years or so. And you used to say your quote " there goes that crazy guy in that Gyro again " It wasn't untill the enclosed two place efficient " stylish " Xenon that will fly two good size people at this altitude did you and others do a second take and follow up with trying it out. ( Maby tired of flying the same ol thing ) WOW this can be alot fun to fly. Technology has only recently allowed more appeal to general Avaition, and with that is a need and that means money...so others will follow. This recession " depression as I here you call it on your radio program " ( I agree ) will help delay the out come. I am patient for this to come about. I still fly the same ol open Bensen/Brock airframe untill myself and others can afford to do it in style & comfort......Dick
 
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PW_Plack

Active Member
I believe that if instruction was more readily available and if legal two-place gyros were around for instruction, the sport would explode!
Tom, if that was the real obstacle, the sport would be booming in areas where availability of instruction has traditionally been good. It's not.

Instead, your experience with your Xenon holds the key. Fewer and fewer people want to build their own machine just to fly, and the look of a manufactured aircraft (to the extent even the Xenon achieves it) has very strong appeal.

The sport has exploded in Europe in the past three years because there are very nice machines available off the showroom floor at prices comparable to or below fixed-wing LSAs. There's no reason to believe it won't do the same here if LSA happens. Then, the issue will be transitioning CFIs in other categories and classes over to gyroplane CFI to meet the demand. I suspect they'll come mostly from the ranks of underemployed helicopter CFIs.
 
One of the biggest pieces to the puzzle is , PASSION. I really don't believe there are many that have true passion for whatever they are doing. True passion will make you get off your butt, get a side job, sell whatever, do whatever it takes to get what you are passionate about. Passion makes you go to bed reading about your passion, going to sleep thinking about it, waking up thinking about it, and then just going after it. You either have it, or you don't. Most may really like what they are doing, but being truly passionate is its own energy source. Stan
 
Gents, I have to agree w/Tom. I came to this group because I was told by a manufacturer that this would be the place to learn as much as I can.. I too have been VERY frustrated trying to find instruction. I had hoped to full fill my life long dream of flying.... i had seen youtube videos of Gyros and hoped that it would be more affordable than going for a conventional private pilots license. I had hoped to get instruction , afford-ably and to build a gyro after I had gotten enough understanding to make an educated guess at what to build. I found that the only way I could get instruction was to spend an enormous amount of money on a machine that I could not fly yet and then pay another equally staggering amount of money for lessons.
I still hope to learn to fly gyros. As some of you have read, I own a machine shop (CNC) and I am sure that I can build anything I can see and understand. I spend most of my cash on machines and tools to continue to make a living.
I had hoped to see some machines up close and perhaps (in my dreams) get to go for a ride and see what it is really like. So far I have not been successful. At least not beyond reading this fine forum. Please don't get me wrong, I 'm not bitter or blame anyone for my investment decisions. I am only saying that I agree that it is VERY hard for anyone including the younger potential students, such as found in the CAP (both of my kids belonged).
I would gladly pay for a ride or lessons, several have offered to take me up , but as of yet, schedules have not meshed. It really seems that flying gyros is more of a well to do mans art than a common mans pleasure. No insult intended.
 

BEN S

Active Member
Doveknives...

Doveknives...

don't take this the wrong way, but you just don't want it bad enough.
I wouldn't even try to tell you what I went through to get training and a machine but suffice to say that having done it, it was more than worth it. I sacrificed a lot and my family's support was essential. With enough motivation you can accomplish ANYTHING you want to do. If you don't believe that you have already beaten yourself.
Ben S
 
doveknives,
It is expensive. I was looking at it much the same way you are when I first wanted a gyro. I have found that the journey was almost as fun as being able to fly. I took out a loan to buy my gyro. I did not have the money for training at that point. I had to save in my piggy bank for that.
Take your time, look for good deals and ENJOY the ride.
Brad
 

ventana7

Gold Member
Doveknives,

There is now a Colorado Rotorcraft chapter of PRA. HQ is in Colo Springs so not far from you at all. Get yourself to the next meeting and see some gyros and maybe get a ride.

Rob
 

ms80831

PRA member since 1973
Doveknives,

There is now a Colorado Rotorcraft chapter of PRA. HQ is in Colo Springs so not far from you at all. Get yourself to the next meeting and see some gyros and maybe get a ride.

Rob
Rob

Steve is a PRA chapter 38 member. He just wasn't able to come to the December meeting. Our next meeting is Feb 5th, (weather permitting, I will give rides.)

Todd and I planned a trip to an Airport near Steve several weeks ago, but had to cancel due to my intermittent transponder. (I can't go inside the Denver Mode C ring.)

Maybe we will see Steve at the Feb meeting, if not before.

Mark
 
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GyroCFI

Member
For me. Cost of insurance and Liability.
That's the biggest reason I've been kinda dragging my feet to get my Snobird tandem ready to train. Liability and the cost of insurance, not to mention not being able to get a LODA and train legally. I love training in gyros, but when it costs more to train and adhere to the insurance requirements of the airport that I fly out of, then there's not much point. I'll get her in the air this year for sure, but probably mostly for personal flying. We'll see though, i'm not closing the door on training, but it is very frustrating.
 

Kevin_Richey

Yamaha gyro...Oregon, USA
I would gladly pay for a ride or lessons, several have offered to take me up , but as of yet, schedules have not meshed. It really seems that flying gyros is more of a well to do mans art than a common mans pleasure. No insult intended.
Steve: The training issue is what it is, and has been addressed by others above this post.

Make your schedule fit another's schedule if you are hungry enough for a gyro flight locally. Wintertime, you have to be patient for weather conditions, but this June, go to ROTR in Brigham City, UT.

Last June, I saw more blue-collar type gyros there than the Xenons or Sparrowhawks. There were a couple of Bensens, a couple of Sport Copters, and a home-built gyro from Arizona (patterned after Carl Schneider's gyros).

There was a Butterfly gyro that I think is worth about 50K.

There was a Sparrowhawk there that's for sale, and it is probably worth every penny of it's 65K asking price. And, there was a RAF 2000 that is converted to center-line thrust. Those two were the most expensive ones, while the others cost under 20K, except the home-built one, and only because of it's Rotax 912 engine.

The Bensen's there at that event probably cost well under 10K.

Since you have CNC equipment available, you could build from plans either a Dominator or a GyroBee gyro.

Dennis Debois, here on the forum, has milling machines like you do. He designed, and then built his "Viewmaster" gyro for 30K. That price includes the Rotac 912, that cost him 20K. The rotorblades ran him about 5K. The remaining 5K was everything else.

You could do the same, and maybe substitute a Subaru or other engine for less cost. The Rotax 912 and 914 series cost a bundle, but are well known for their reliability, being designed for aircraft service. Maybe you ought to talk turkey with Racer about the Yamaha sled engines for your use in a gyro. Well built, reliable, and parts availability from that Japanese manufacturer.

Find a GOOD used engine, rotorblades, prop, rotorhead, etc., and you quite possibly could have your own flying gyro for well under 8 grand. It'd cost more $$ for new items such as these.

Make it a point to attend ROTR this coming June, and see the different rotorcraft there. Helicopters also show up.
 
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I think Tom sold his Xenon so he could install a bladder tank on his R44.

I learned those words from you Tom.

Please forgive me.

Frank directs your life from now on.

Best wishes for 2011 , Please accept my Canadian humor. It cuts deep.

Your helicopter does not exist after 12 years.

Cut , cut , cut,

My intention Tom , and I mean it sincerely , is to ask the Robinson purchaser whether he has indeed made a purchase , or entered into a lease agreement.

Either way it does not matter to me. I neither own , nor lease a Robinson product.

But I am clearly able to define between the two.

Best regards as you strive to represent consumers.

There is nothing I would like better , than if all good men could own their own helicopter. And be able to fly it .

It is my greatest wish that you are one of those men Tom.

I admire that you publish and change your name in front of the whole world to see. That is rare. That is almost harder than flying a helicopter , or owning a helicopter , or paying to install bladder tanks on a helicopter.

Happy new year.

Less than 2% of the men on this planet publish their own name in front of the whole world to see. Such men have my respect.

Arnie.
 
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