New Gyro designed by Animal for Phoenix Rotorcraft

animal

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Well as some of you know, I have been in close Contact with Anthony of Phoenix Rotorcraft and after many conversations he has agreed to let me design a Gyro that he will produce and sell kits for.

anyway. here is a rough drawing of the new Concept Gyro that will be called the El Diablo 1 and 2.

what will set this machine off is, it will have a EJ-22 with redrive for power and will be offered as a single seat machine that will be fully enclosed with a modified Body of the Falcon style. will have a more rounded windshield mount for one thing. ( remember my falcon thread where the last screw stressed the windshield and cracked it? )

And we will be making an insert to widen the body and a kit to convert it to a 2 seat side by side Gyro. cowled in engine will be standard.

It will be offered with standard flight gauges or optional glass panel.

Also this machine will have aluminum fuel tanks that will mount behind the cab on each side. so no ethanol issues with the fuel tanks.

Anthony has already crunched some numbers and we are looking at a complete kit price of under $23,000.

I am hoping that now that I have the measurements all drawn out Anthony will get the kit ready for me to build for him and with any luck have the Prototype at Bensen days or Mentone.
yeah I know, time is running out for Bensen days,but if he supplys the whole kit for me to build at my own shop, I think I can pull it off.

so there ya have it,what do ya think?

oh the tail is a triple tail with winglets on the top and bottom of the H-stab. stab span is 72" x 24"

the drawing is scale. so that gives ya a pretty good idea.

about 8'4" to top of rotorhead. 12" drop keel. to swing a 72" prop. nose to tail is 15 feet long.

If you like the Design and want one of the first kits you can E-mail me at [email protected] or just call Anthony at Phoenix Rotorcraft at 919-340-0038 and tell him you are calling about the El Diablo.
 

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StanFoster

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Tim- Looking good there guy! Pull this baby off! I cant wait to see it at Bensen Days or Mentone.


Stan
 

animal

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Well it is in Anthony's hands now, but he has already been promoting the design to a few people that have called about the Falcon design that Phoenix has decided not to produce.
So now to see if we can get this baby built in time for Bensen Days, Mentone at the latest.
 

m.sig

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Animal

Are you planing to have it listed on the FAA list. For the two seater will it be alote more expensive. it is very interesting I like the design. I already start to dream about it.... are you thinking about a suspension on the landing gear.

Marc
 

animal

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Animal

Are you planing to have it listed on the FAA list. For the two seater will it be alote more expensive. it is very interesting I like the design. I already start to dream about it.... are you thinking about a suspension on the landing gear.

Marc
since the 2 seater will be a matter of just widening the cab and installed a 2 seat bench seat or 2 bucket seats and dual controls, it should be very close to the single seat price.

also we are going to be working on a shock absorbing landing gear.

here is a pic of what a Falcon looks like with the full body,but instead of a 6" drop keel of the Falcon design, the new design will have a 12" drop and taller mast to clear a 72" 3 or 4 blade prop. also the Horz. stab is 6 feet wide and 2 feet front to back with over 3 feet tall winglets. this tail will be wide enough to get the winglets into clean air with the widened Body.

I will be glad to take your Order or you can call Anthony, he said he can have a kit ready to ship in a short time. requires a 70% deposit.

Phoenix also offers radios and full glass panels as options.
this thing should be a power house and I am sure if you request it for more you can get a EJ-25 2.5L Subaru with re-drive.

I am looking forward to building this Machine. and yes we do hope to get it listed on the 51% build list.
 

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Wiplash

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Good to see progress from Phoenix Rotorcraft.

I had a look at thier website. Are they still building Sparrow kits?

I see they are building Rotors, that's good news. What are they using to bond the leading edge insert inside the blades? Is the hub bar the same that RotorHawk offered or has it been changed?

And finally, would they consider bringing some rotors to Mentone or Bensen Days?


Thanks,
Todd
 

animal

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Good to see progress from Phoenix Rotorcraft.

I had a look at thier website. Are they still building Sparrow kits?

I see they are building Rotors, that's good news. What are they using to bond the leading edge insert inside the blades? Is the hub bar the same that RotorHawk offered or has it been changed?

And finally, would they consider bringing some rotors to Mentone or Bensen Days?


Thanks,
Todd
Hi Todd, Anthony has decided to discontinue the Falcon and Sparrow line, Falcon because,my design has many improvements over the stock Falcon, even the one in my build Thread was highly modified. and the Sparrow is just way to much work to make a true ultra light.

As for the Blades insert Bonding that would be a better question to ask Anthony as I am mainly just in sales, but I am sure he will be glad to answer you.

the Hub bar has many improvments and is now having the Coneing angle machined into the hub bar it's self, doing away with all the shims and stuff of Carnes old hub bar design. basicly the only thing that will resemble the Falcon on the new Gyro here is the body and it will even have some improvments.

I am really excited that Anthony is going to Build this Gyro that I designed and I have been studying Gyro designs and improvments since the mid 80's I am going on the principles, of CLT, large prop for high trust, large Horz. stab set far back and rised up into the prop blast, large Winglets to compensate for the disturbed airflow around a fat body for the 2 seat version.
and of course I have to give credit to Bensen and Fetters when they both sold conversions to convert the single place machines they sold to a 2 seat machine.

I think or at least hope there will be a good market for this machine.
worse case I get to have the fun of building a machine that incorporates all the stability and design improvements I have read about over the years.

I would think it cant help but fly well as even the RAF-2000 with a good H. stab is tamable.

in the mean time, if you need hub bars, rotor heads and other Components, let us know and I will get the prices for you.

here are some pics of the Blades in stock and the hub bars,so yes we are ready to sell as soon as you place an order.

thanks for your Interest,as I really do want to hear replys good or bad as to what people think of my design.
wait till you see the top view of the tail, will try and get that posted tomorrow.
 

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Riff Raf

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El Diablo
Is not a good name for a gyro that has not been built and or test flown...:rip:
 

GyroDoug

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Tim,

The key to getting some of these units sold will be to get the prototype built and flying and get it in front of a crowd. I find it hard to believe you can have it built and flying at Bensen days but I believe Mentone is a reasonable goal. Remember you have to get it signed off and the 40 hrs flown off if you want to bring it to Mentone and start to demo the machine. That's a bunch to bite off but where you have all the building experience you have, I'm sure you can do it a lot quicker than your typical new builder would be able to. Good luck with it. You seem to have some really good idea for it. But having a flying model will really tell the tale.
 

animal

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yes this is very true,I am going to sure try and get it done, but, yeah it may just get there as a static display at bensen days, the Only way it is going to happen will be if Anthony gets me the kit here so I can work on it day and night.

yes it would be nice to have it flying by then.
 

GyroCFI

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you.

the Hub bar has many improvments and is now having the Coneing angle machined into the hub bar it's self, doing away with all the shims and stuff of Carnes old hub bar design.
I have a hub bar that Neal made back in the early 90's that has the coning angle machined into it. I never used it since I went to Skywheels. it looks almost itentical to the ones in the pictures.
 

Sir Real

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Great news!

I have one plaintive request: Can you make it comfortable for bigger guys? Those of us bigger than 6'2"/270 could use a little love...
 

animal

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Great news!

I have one plaintive request: Can you make it comfortable for bigger guys? Those of us bigger than 6'2"/270 could use a little love...
well that is part of the Reason for the EJ-22 on the single seat and the beefed up airframe, the mast of the new gyro is made from 2 1" x 3" box. I think the cabin should be plenty big for the larger Pilot.

Anthony will probably check this thread, so I am sure he will look into requests to make it better.
 

animal

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Congrats Tim

It is looking good for the homebuilders team.
Thanks Thom, I am hoping this will fill a nitch in the Gyro market for the Builder on a budget that later would like a 2 seat machine.

I have been studying the stability tests and beliefs of the P.R.A. for years now and I have been reading the Forum trying to get a good market feel of what People are looking for.

I am really hoping this machine flys as nice and turns out as nice as I think it will.

I know I am going to do my best to make it happen and I am listening to what the customers wants.
 

bmoore2156

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Animal,
If I was going to design a gyro I would make sure it had a flexible mast of some type. A bonded 2x3" mast will shake the airframe apart I would think.
Brad
 

animal

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Front and Rear view Of the El Diablo - 1

Front and Rear view Of the El Diablo - 1

Ok here are more rough drawings of the Front and Rear of the El Diablo -1 gyroplane.

After more talks with Anthony, the Body is going to be made with a lip around the edges to bolt the halfs together and to be able to insert the expander for the 2 seat conversion with out having to cut the body in two.

Also it has be decided,that since the Price is not alot differant the Subaru EJ-25 2.5L will be the standard engine.

We are also designing Adjustable pedals for short or tall Pilots.

Also, as of yesterday I changed the sales E-mail address to [email protected] as the G-mail account format was confusing and not working well.

keep up to date on the El Diablo and Phoenix Rotorcraft on face book at

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Phoenix-Rotor-Craft-Experimental-Gyroplanes-and-Helicopter-kits-and-parts/159785004074405

I am really excited about this Design and looking forward to building this machine.
 

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wdr_601

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I really like the planned installation of the EJ-22. Its a highly regarded engine.
The EJ-25 (which I love in my car,btw) tends to run the number 3 cylinder lean at high rpms due to the nature of the serial port fuel injection. I read on one of the subaru boards about a parallel fuel injection modification to fix that issue. The first generation EJ-25's also had an oiling problem in that the crankshaft didn't throw enough oil the number 3 cylinders way.

If we can just get the FB-25 engine :)
 

animal

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I really like the planned installation of the EJ-22. Its a highly regarded engine.
The EJ-25 (which I love in my car,btw) tends to run the number 3 cylinder lean at high rpms due to the nature of the serial port fuel injection. I read on one of the subaru boards about a parallel fuel injection modification to fix that issue. The first generation EJ-25's also had an oiling problem in that the crankshaft didn't throw enough oil the number 3 cylinders way.

If we can just get the FB-25 engine :)
yeah here is a Pic of my daily driver, I am on subaruforester.org

when I first read about the new FB-25 I started Drooling. I would love to have one of those in a Gyro.

I had an EJ-22 in my last Subaru,great engines.
 

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RotorTom

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No disrespect meant ... But ...

No disrespect meant ... But ...

I promise you, I mean no disrespect to Animal. I have grown quite fond of him through his posts. He seems to be a hard working, well meaning, ambitious fellow and I wish the best for him in all endeavors.

But I am wondering if any of you have had the same thought I have had ... OR AM I WRONG?

Should we expect a designer of an experimental Gyro to at least have experience flying gyros? (I do not fault Animal for not flying -- perhaps circumstances prevent that). But how much should we expect from designers?

Am I wrong? Maybe so. Is it common for designers not to have any experience (or very limited experience)?

Obviously, the proof is in the pudding ... and I hope the pudding is really good. But I simply believe the overall confidence level for me would be much stronger had a gyro been designed by someone with vast flight experience.

I believe this is so when it comes to being a dealer as well. Is it just me? Or have others had similar thoughts.

(Again, Animal ... you are a great guy and this is NOT targeted at you)
 
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