New Generation Gyro being introduced!

gyroplanes

FAA DAR Gyropilot
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And who would purchase an unproven prototype that's not flying yet?
Oshkosh has seen it's share over the years, most notable............ the BD-5 in fixed wing and the Phoenix helicopter (The Phoenix has arisen from the ashes many times under many names)

Oshkosh is well known as a place for dreamers, dreamers buy a lot of info packets. I believe it was BJ Schramm that told me he made a bunch more money on info packets than he did aircraft kit sales (or it might have been Igor Bensen) (probably true of both)
 

Greg Mitchell

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
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Australia
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Butterfly Monarch 582
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Scare Me!

And then it will get a full sized pod. Shoot!

I thought perhaps I'd been a little harsh at first call. Not so looking at those pictures.

Thanks for the pictures Dave.....nice paint....

Mitch
 

Resasi

Gold Supporter
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Messages
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Location
London/ Kilifi Kenya
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Gyrs, RAF 2000/Mgni/Bnsn/Hrnet/Mrlin/Crckt/MT-03/Lyzlle AV18-A/Prdtor. Pax ArrowCopter
Total Flight Time
100+ gyro, 16,000+ other
Interesting.

'Gyro' Jim certainly chose a very eye-catching paint scheme. Not sure who would go for fluorescent pink but I imagine that the idea was to bring the folks over to look. Certainly would have worked for me despite it being a gyro and me wanting to look anyway.

Never seen teleflex used for the control rods, not sure how good that would be and what the issues might be. Certainly works OK on the rudder and on outboards. As for the mast, very short box structure and suspended frame underneath seems quite radical. Once again, has this ever been done before?

I guess we bought the Hornet on spec and with a lot of doubt about it at the time. It was however an improvement of a proven design. Oh yeah, and lost my deposit on a BD3 many years ago when Jim went bust. Seemed a great idea at the time, but then I always have been a sucker for what I thought was a good looking craft

Will be interesting to see how it flies, when it flies, and what issues it may...or may not have. But then I guess that 'Gyro' Jim will be the test pilot. He doesn't seem to be a forum member so hopefully someone will keep tabs on these.
 

scottessex

Sling-Wing Pilot
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central, ga
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Dominator 582
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I am not getting a warm fuzzy feeling about these..... anyone else?
 

GyroDoug

Newbie
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Sep 23, 2005
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Layton, UT.
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Butterfly Super Sky Cycle
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Let's give them a chance

Let's give them a chance

Just some Information. It is my understanding that Jim Fields was originally involved in bringing the Honey Bee to market. He has been involved in Gyros for many years. His mentors don't buy into the idea that a gyro needs to be center line thrust to be safe so he doesn't either. His designs do have a reasonable sized HS but it is not airfoile shaped and not on a particularly long moment arm but appears to be in the realm of reasonable to me. Obviously it would be more powerful if it were build with an airfoil shape rather than just beeing a flat slab.

Talking with Jim, he seems experienced and energetic and like a man with a mission, He really wants to bring a reasonably priced modern design of Gyros to the public. I believe he has served on the board of the PRA in years past and been very involved but becuase of political and personal issues that happened he has washed his hands of the organization and doesn't feel like they are an asset to our sport. I have explained that there have been lots of changes and there is an honest effort to change and improve and he should give it another try. He is hesitant but somewhat open. I am encouraged by that and think we all need to be less judgemental and more welcoming to other members even when we may not personally agree with their phillosophy when it comes to Gyro Safety (or politics), Our goal should really be to help promote our sport.

The bottom line on these two machines is: "they are a work in progress". They do have some innovative and good ideas in them. Some of the ideas are great and some aren't working like he'd hoped (like the control cables) but he is open to changing and I believe it will be a while before these are truly done and ready for market. (Although Jim is very optimistic and feels like they will be ready for sale in 30 days - I wouldn't bet any money on that) I think we should give him a chance as he could is a strong promoter and capable of being a positive force for our sport. These machine are attractive and have some innovative features. I can see why he is proud of them even if they aren't exactly what I would design. Lets not roast the poor guy but welcome him back into the fold and see what happens.
 

gab76

Newbie
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Sep 19, 2004
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Holt, Missouri (Kansas City)
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A/C Tandem CLT Soob power
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It not doubt is a good concept. Needs alot of tweeking though. Maybe the designer should put it on the forum for input to make it flyable. Test pilots anyone?
 

WHY

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miami,oklahoma
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Dejavue anyone ??????

Tony
 

Resasi

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Gyrs, RAF 2000/Mgni/Bnsn/Hrnet/Mrlin/Crckt/MT-03/Lyzlle AV18-A/Prdtor. Pax ArrowCopter
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100+ gyro, 16,000+ other
Bit more background information on the gentleman does help. I certainly found his idea intriguing and would like to see how it works out.
 

j4flyer

Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
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Location
Woodland, Ca
I believe Ron Herron has been using telex cables for years. The certified J2 uses these cables as well. (Now that you knowledgeable posters have learned you are not so knowledgeable) How about everyone taking a step back and letting this guy complete his testing before posting on the forum-don't buy or invest. A poster said that PRA has changed, NOT. These are just rehashes of the old don't buy RAF posts. Everyone wonders why Gyros are losing membership--My opinion, same old song every-time someone not known on the forum tries something different. This forum may have educated some but, it has also been responsible for the downturn in PRA membership, training, 2 place training machines and interest in gyros. Think I'm wrong, how many active CFI's do we have now? Not as many as 10 years ago. How about encouraging new ideas.
 

C. Beaty

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Ron Heron knows enough about machinery to understand that the housing on a push-pull cable must be anchored to the airframe. At both ends.
 

Attachments

Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
107
Location
Ludell, KS
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60 hrs
I think that there's a lot of merit to this design. Yes, it has potential issues; ones I see are the rubber shock mounts on the rotorhead wearing out, and teleflex cable likes to seize up when it gets rained on (also can seize without warning). I like the sliding mast on the two place to account for CG/moment changes with passenger differences. Also, the mast design is much stronger than the single mast designs that dominate gyros today, while providing a degree of protection for the pilot. I could also see a thin polycarb or acrylic bubble to snap on for a windscreen...partial or full, snap on in halves. I see the rubber shock mounts as being necessary to account for the reduced mast flexibility. Shorter mast without as much attached to it...easier to change if it has issues. Also note that with pull only controls on the rotorhead, you can't put down pressure on the cyclic to unload the rotors like push/pull rods. Personally, I think there's definitely potential in this; they obviously put some thought into this that most have not.
 

gyroplanes

FAA DAR Gyropilot
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I believe Ron Herron has been using telex cables for years. The certified J2 uses these cables as well. (Now that you knowledgeable posters have learned you are not so knowledgeable) How about everyone taking a step back and letting this guy complete his testing before posting on the forum-don't buy or invest. A poster said that PRA has changed, NOT. These are just rehashes of the old don't buy RAF posts. Everyone wonders why Gyros are losing membership--My opinion, same old song every-time someone not known on the forum tries something different. This forum may have educated some but, it has also been responsible for the downturn in PRA membership, training, 2 place training machines and interest in gyros. Think I'm wrong, how many active CFI's do we have now? Not as many as 10 years ago. How about encouraging new ideas.
The control cables on a McCulloch J-2 are not at all like a standard outboard motor control cable and they are FAA certified. The Hughes (Schweitzer) 300 uses them as well. The Rotorway family uses a lesser design, but they incorporate two for redundancy and to take out the inherent play (ok for rudders, not for rotorheads)

AND what does the new / old PRA have to do with any of this. Have you heard some official comment from the PRA on this ?

You can thank the FAA for the lack of legal two place gyros and instructors. The FAA made a mistake, said they would fix it............. it's been two years. (longer for the ELSA gyro debacle)
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
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Oct 30, 2003
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Nipomo,California
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Givens Predator
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I stand corrected!

I stand corrected!

I talked to the gentlemen at the booth and they felt that people on the forum would do exactly what they are doing.

They were not coming to Mentone because they felt it would quickly become unproductive particularly without a flying prototype.

They feel they had bad experiences with the PRA in the past.

I said that things had changed and they should give the forum and the PRA another chance.

The aircraft in the booth were not finished of flyable and they knew that the cables required a hold down on the end. They may go back to two piece push pull rods. The cables were an unfinished experiment.

I was told that the pink was a male customer’s request.

They had not done a double hang test so they did not know where the vertical center of gravity was. Their computer calculations came out exactly on the thrust line. They are planning on using Sport Copter blades because they feel they are the best.

The horizontal stabilizer is large and well back from what I imagine the center of gravity might be.

They both attributed some flawed statements about gyroplane stability to the PRA that I have not personally heard.

They claimed that someone at AirVenture told them that “centerline thrust” meant that the thrust line passed through the middle of the pilot’s chest. They both seemed to understand the concept.

Some of the people that stopped by their booth seemed generous in sharing their understanding of gyroplane stability. Much of it was divergent with my opinions.

This was going on all over AirVenture. Many seem to feel that it is a prime opportunity to demonstrate what they know to someone who probably knows more. I learn more by asking questions.

In my opinion their gyroplanes looked safer than many of the popular plans built gyroplanes I have seen. I do not claim to be an aeronautical engineer so take that for what it is worth.

Their pricing seemed very reasonable to me.

I visited the booth several times and listened to several presentations and the answers to questions that the people asked.

They were both very nice to me even when I pressed them for definitions of terms. I can be very persistent and annoying.

I wished them well on my departure from AirVenture.

Thank you, Vance
 

jcarleto

Aluminum Supporter
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Taylorsville, GA
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Beech Bonanza G-35 N4638D/"The Bulldozer" 2-Place Gyroplane N575EE
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Several
Alan_Cheatham said:
what looks like Teleflex cables instead of pushrods on the single place ship, what's up with that!
I put push-pull cables instead of push rods on my two-place. I've been very happy with them. They are significantly stronger than push rods and dampen the 2-per-rev to the point I have no stick shake at all. A passenger can't grab them in a panic and cause a bad day as they might with push rods. I think the key is to use a set that is capable of many times the expected load. I used 3/8" cables custom made by a certified manufacturer.

That said, the set on the gyro in the picture seemed a tad lightweight to my eye....of course everything seems a bit lightweight to my eye. ;)
 
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