New FAA Policy on Training In Experimental Aircraft.

bryancobb

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I agree! Silly is not even a strong enough word. And, I admit to not knowing what I am talking about. I am doing a lot of reading about it though, and I'm repeating what I am reading. Don't forget, this is similar to the same "jacked-up" misinterpretation of the CFI Sport rules that caused many students to not be able to count any of their dual obtained from Subpart K instructors. This silly interpretation remained the law for over 10 years until someone with a brain fixed it a couple of years ago.
 

chrisk

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This was a FOR PROFIT organization...”
Please show me a NON-PROFIT CFI so that I can get free lessons.


given by a CFI that was in the payroll of Warbird Adventures.”
Again, what CFI is not on the payroll of some company?
Ok, non-profit does not mean free. Imagine a part time instructor who flys 100 hours a year. $3K for hangar. $6K for insurance. --Your up to $90 per hour without fuel or depreciation..... Then add $20 of expense to drive to the airport and back. The part time instructor is loosing money if they charge $150 per hour. Then add local taxes.... Now imagine that same person instructs 50 hours a year. They are clearly non-profit, but certainly not free.

In big flight schools for fixed wing planes, its generally known the instructors live on Ramen noodles. Its not that the instructors are cheap. They just don't get paid enough to afford more. They get paid for the hours they work. They are on the pay roll, but not on salary. Most older instructors who instruct do so because they love flying and teaching others to fly. They don't do it for the money.
 

Hydro Pilot

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Hi Chris,
I was simply defending the CFIs at Warbird Adventures by pointing out that they are no different from any other CFI's that charge for their services. I wanted to show that the term FOR-PROFIT should not vilify any organization as it was intended in his post.

Technically speaking, a NON-PROFIT organization is a special category within the IRS codes (i.e. 501c3). While saying "free lessons" was a little extreme, I wanted to point out that every CFI I know of charges for their services, rightly so, and is a member of a FOR-PROFIT organization. They either work for a for-profit company or have their own for-profit corporation (i.e. LLC).

But I get your point that a CFI can charge for lessons and still not make a profit. And I fully agree that independent CFIs have a lot of expenses and every CFI I know of charges very reasonable prices when you take their expenses into consideration. I would defend them just as strongly as I do the CFIs at W.A.
 

Hydro Pilot

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A friend of mine that trains in Rotorway helicopters just got his LODA and he said It reads this signed LODA IS for any experimental aircraft he is qualified in. Glad to see they are not specific to one aircraft.
 

WaspAir

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I actually do instruct for free (at least in sailplanes), in that I give dual to any member of my glider club at no charge (even primary training for new members seeking to learn to fly). The FAA, however, says I am being compensated because I can log the time. Here's the word from AOPA:

The FAA alleged volunteer instructors received compensation by “accumulating flight time” and “generating goodwill.” In other words, the FAA believes giving away your time and talent equates to compensation.

source: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...is-at-risk?utm_source=epilot&utm_medium=email

Under that interpretation, all instruction is for compensation, even if the student is your own spouse or child. You are required to log instruction in the student's logbook by 61.189(a), so you can't just decline to accept the accumulated flight time, because you've made a record of it and signed it. In practice, if you're getting "compensation", that means other things, too, such as:

1) every standard category aircraft I instruct in now needs 100 hour inspections, because it is being used commercially

2) insurance that covers only personal use (not commercial operations) may be invalid if you ever take a flight review in the aircraft

3) if the federal government says a CFI is getting "compensation", it likely needs to have a value determined and be reported to the IRS on a form 1099 or be declared on a 1040

and a host of other unforeseen consequences.

Worst of all, a LODA may protect you from violating some of the FARs about use of the aircraft, but does not exempt you from those other consequences.

Anything that makes a donation magically turn into compensation to the donor is just too twisted to comprehend.
 
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GyroCFI

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That's way past silly. It can't be logged by the CFI as "flight" instruction because - - duh - - he's not flying. He"s certainly not carrying persons or property for hire if he's not even in the aircraft. If a LODA is necessary, one has to ask just what regulation you would be "deviating" from with that Deviation Authority.

If that's "flight" instruction, then ATC will need LODAs and instructor ratings to give instructions by radio from the ground (they are compensated for their work).
Back in the day, we used to give instruction "by observation" for single-seat gyros. Several flight checks done by the FAA were also done "by observation" for single-seat gyros.
 

WaspAir

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Sure, but I'll bet you didn't record it in your own logbook as flight time in that model.

I can't imagine a LODA being required to sit on the ground.
 

GyroCFI

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Sure, but I'll bet you didn't record it in your own logbook as flight time in that model.

I can't imagine a LODA being required to sit on the ground.
Right, me either... this whole episode in the continuing saga of the FAA is just unbelievable
 

Resasi

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Back in the day, we used to give instruction "by observation" for single-seat gyros. Several flight checks done by the FAA were also done "by observation" for single-seat gyros.
Only way it can be done, as an assistant instructor I logged none of it...but had to keep a record of it, in addition to my Instructor certifying that in the students log book, as I was myself under his instruction.
 

Sv.grainne

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Not slamming the FAA, when I read the EAA post I submitted my LODA request, needed or not, 3 day turnaround on a simple email request is impressive. Easy to apply, approval nearly automatic so have to say they have done a good job covering EAB aircraft
 
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