New chinese engine

j bird

Gold Supporter
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
1,697
Location
Cave Junction,OR.
Aircraft
Dominator/Airworthiness Certificate 9/06/12
Total Flight Time
26.5 duel,RAF,Sparrow-Hawk,Cavalon,Calidus.
Hope I can buy one, around $5,000.00? :rolleyes:
 

fara

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Messages
3,204
Location
Tampa, FL
Aircraft
AR-1
Total Flight Time
3600+ .. New to gyroplanes
Well, I would not even put a Jabiru engine in a gyro so I am not sure about this one. They could have at least changed the intake manifold and the valve covers.
 

dinoa

Junior Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2007
Messages
756
Location
florida
Rotax could use some competition. Just never thought it would be through reverse engineering.
 

Steve_UK

Active Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
3,599
Location
UK
Aircraft
I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA
""Not sure I'd trust my life to anything technical, created by the Reds.""

Thankfully your NASA astronauts take a different view as they soley rely on our friends in Russia ""................until another US manned spacecraft is ready, crews will travel to and from the International Space Station (ISS) exclusively aboard the Russian Soyuz spacecraft.""


Plenty of your SOG guys enjoying flying US operated Russian built Mil Mi-17s in hot sandy places today too.
 

Steve_UK

Active Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
3,599
Location
UK
Aircraft
I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA
Nice photo of American flight engineer Randy Bresnik of NASA lifting off recently in his Russian Soyuz - The Soyuz MS-05 rocket is launched with Expedition 52 flight engineer Sergei Ryazanskiy of Roscosmos, flight engineer Randy Bresnik of NASA, and flight engineer Paolo Nespoli of ESA (European Space Agency), Friday, July 28, 2017 at the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan. Ryazanskiy, Bresnik, and Nespoli will spend the next four and a half months living and working aboard the International Space Station.
 

Attachments

eutrophicated1

Designated Acronym-Nazi
Joined
Jul 23, 2017
Messages
293
Location
Flint, Michigan
Guess I reassigned the term: "Reds" to the Chinese, perhaps mistakenly. I do remember when it was a term applied mostly to the Russians. My view of the Red Chinese military and political structure is that they are a bloody-minded people, not caring who they offend or kill, even of their own people. And since practically all business conducted by the Red Chinese is owned by the military, I am fearful of any and all products they produce and market. It is not my intent to compare them with any other group or country, my assessment is only about them. You may ask any of my chinese expat. co-workers; you will find I have probably at one time or other said the same thing to them.
 

eutrophicated1

Designated Acronym-Nazi
Joined
Jul 23, 2017
Messages
293
Location
Flint, Michigan
dinoa;n1125576 said:
Rotax could use some competition. Just never thought it would be through reverse engineering.
Not sure the Red Chinese actually "reverse engineered" anything about that engine. That is to say, did they actually do a chemical analysis of the crankshaft, camshaft, valves, cylinders, heads, valve seats, valve springs, timing gears, and the assorted bolts, connecting rods, piston rings(each) and wrist pins. Each of these parts has a different metallurgical history of manufacture. I've made steel in the mills of Indiana; I know how complex the process and chemistry is. And I seriously doubt much, if any true reverse engineering was done on the Rotax engines. Having worked in all facets of the IT business for 25 years, believe me, if the Red Chinese want to co-opt a technology, they'll just steal it, like they did Microsoft Windows. And they won't care a whit, how many shortcuts they'll have to take, so long as it "looks similar" to the original.

I've worked with the mechanical engineers at General Motors, Ford and Chrysler Corporations, and I've heard how the Red Chinese manipulated their way into getting the technology they needed to make semi-decent automotive engines, engines they couldn't make on their own. Their manufacturing processes were the worst. Their cars still are among the poorest quality in the world.

Yes, Rotax could use some competition; and I invite you all in the free world to become that competition. Some say that the Rotax engines are an outdated design, that there could be newer ones that would be better. I've studied engine design for 50 years, and know that nothing really new comes up very often, mechanically speaking. The main advancements have been due to newer information in the materials sciences. If you want to see advancements, look to super-car, or formula 1 development, where extreme cost is not an issue. The mechanics are such that the inline 6 cylinder engine is still the most inherently in balance. The 1929 Lagonda V12 is still one of the smoothest-running engines ever made. The spark plug wires could be routed 2 completely different ways, and still you could put a glass of water on it without spilling any.

You want better engines? Simply replace the cam-driven, coil spring actuated valve trains with ECU controlled hydraullicly actuated valves.
 

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
4,380
Location
Colorado front range
Aircraft
Bell 47G-3B-1 / A&S 18A / Phoebus C, etc.
Total Flight Time
stopped caring at 1000
This is an interesting forum on which to find concern about flying with Chinese-built engines, given that many of our members have been content to fly with McCulloch drone engines, never "man-rated", designed to be launched once and then shot down, and infamous for quitting at any time. Others fly with converted auto engines, never intended to operate at 75% power all day. Tolerance for powerplant peculiarities is higher here than in any other branch of aviation I've ever encountered.

(Of, course, I understand distrust about such things; the gyros I fly are Lycoming powered, which tells you much about my personal comfort levels when carrying friends and family.)
 

jm-urbani

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
308
Location
French Riviera
Aircraft
home built mono seat
Total Flight Time
200ish
WaspAir;n1125634 said:
This is an interesting forum on which to find concern about flying with Chinese-built engines, given that many of our members have been content to fly with McCulloch drone engines, never "man-rated", designed to be launched once and then shot down, and infamous for quitting at any time. Others fly with converted auto engines, never intended to operate at 75% power all day. Tolerance for powerplant peculiarities is higher here than in any other branch of aviation I've ever encountered.

(Of, course, I understand distrust about such things; the gyros I fly are Lycoming powered, which tells you much about my personal comfort levels when carrying friends and family.)
I am ready to buy a 70 kilos 120 hp lyco to power my second home built, if you know one for sell please note I am ready to make this choice .
 

eutrophicated1

Designated Acronym-Nazi
Joined
Jul 23, 2017
Messages
293
Location
Flint, Michigan
CLS447;n1125630 said:
I like it ! I wonder how much $ ?? Ever see these from Harbor Freight ........?

https://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gas-engines.html

The prices are great & they are exact copies !

Remember never fly over anything you can't land on !
Yeah, sure. Do you have the metallurigcal reports on those "Copies"? Pot metal can be cast to "look" exactly like high carbon steel. Then, when it expands unevenly under heating, it seizes, and you die.
 

fara

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Messages
3,204
Location
Tampa, FL
Aircraft
AR-1
Total Flight Time
3600+ .. New to gyroplanes
WaspAir;n1125634 said:
This is an interesting forum on which to find concern about flying with Chinese-built engines, given that many of our members have been content to fly with McCulloch drone engines, never "man-rated", designed to be launched once and then shot down, and infamous for quitting at any time. Others fly with converted auto engines, never intended to operate at 75% power all day. Tolerance for powerplant peculiarities is higher here than in any other branch of aviation I've ever encountered.

(Of, course, I understand distrust about such things; the gyros I fly are Lycoming powered, which tells you much about my personal comfort levels when carrying friends and family.)
You will "never" find me behind that McCulloch so I don't think your point applies to me. Just to clarify, I am pretty sure this is the actual Rotax engine with just the valve covers changed. Many Chinese companies tend to do things like that even with full aircraft and call them their own to gauge interest in the product before they actually put up a production line and copy it.
 

fara

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Messages
3,204
Location
Tampa, FL
Aircraft
AR-1
Total Flight Time
3600+ .. New to gyroplanes
jm-urbani;n1125636 said:
I am ready to buy a 70 kilos 120 hp lyco to power my second home built, if you know one for sell please note I am ready to make this choice .
True however when you start looking at 915iS which requires a 25 pound constant speed prop to get out its 135 HP and take its complete weight and compare it to a Titan at 160 HP, the difference disappears really.
 

jm-urbani

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
308
Location
French Riviera
Aircraft
home built mono seat
Total Flight Time
200ish
absolutly the faster piston airplane was the spitfire, his engine V12 "upright" was a liquid cooled engine (born in 1936) ... I just can't understand why the hell are we still seing old combine harvester flat four air coold engines flying in 2017 on brand new planes ....4stroke rotax, lyco or conti same story...

we all need modern engines, lycos and conti's are used by defaults
 
Last edited:

René

Newbie
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Messages
31
Location
PREVESSIN France
Aircraft
autogire
Total Flight Time
350
another one engine chinese

http://www.ticeri.com/newsshow5.asp?D_id=6641


[IMG2=JSON]{"alt":"Image","data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/img11.hostingpics.net\/pics\/256067002.jpg"}[/IMG2]


[IMG2=JSON]{"alt":"Image","data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/img11.hostingpics.net\/pics\/6743463039427741733030.jpg"}[/IMG2]

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/img110.xooimage.com\/files\/f\/5\/e\/capture-5335020.jpg"}[/IMG2]
 
Last edited:

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
15,697
Location
Nipomo,California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2200+ in rotorcraft
No Title

jm-urbani;n1125652 said:
. I just can't understand why the hell are we still seing old combine harvester flat four air coold engines flying in 2017 on brand new planes ....4stroke rotax, lyco or conti same story...

we all need modern engines, lycos and conti's are used by defaults
It may be because we are still buying Lycoming and Continental aircraft engines.

It may be that Lycoming and Continental engines are being purchased because they are light, have reasonable consumption and are reliable.

It may be that liability and regulations discourage others from entering the somewhat small aviation engine market and make return on investment and making a profit unlikely.

I have seen many seemingly advanced engines introduced at AirVenture only to fade into oblivion.

I don't need a more modern engine to fly my gyroplane.
 

Attachments

Last edited:
Top