New canopy design for Calidus

[nishanh]

Just FYI. I don't have any pictures, but I was offered a new canopy for my impending Calidus kit that has an extra 5-inches of headroom (for an additional $650). I opted for this since I found that my David Clark's with the plush head-pad would rub on the top of the canopy in the training A/C.

 

[Abid]

Just FYI. I don't have any pictures, but I was offered a new canopy for my impending Calidus kit that has an extra 5-inches of headroom (for an additional $650). I opted for this since I found that my David Clark's with the plush head-pad would rub on the top of the canopy in the training A/C.

That would change the flight characteristics of the gyroplane

 

[nishanh]

That would change the flight characteristics of the gyroplane

I'm sure that it will. But to a significant or detrimental degree? I would hope AG would not incorporate such changes without analysis. I await to see the actual implementation.

 

[Brent Drake]

I've heard lots of rumors about AG's fuel tanks not passing tests. Any truth to them?

 

[Steve_UK]

Brent going off canopy topic - AG posted this theother day

Back in the air again!

We want to offer our congratulations to the AutoGyro USA Team, their patient owners, and the AutoGyro Certification Team for their success in appealing the imposition of helicopter fuel system safety requirements in gyroplanes.
We are all grateful for the careful consideration and understanding of the different operational characteristics given within the FAA, leveraging the new AIR Issue Resolution and Appeal Process. All aircraft that were temporarily grounded have been released into service without any modifications required. The entire AutoGyro team is thrilled to be back in full production as the only provider of factory built, Primary Category type-certificated gyroplanes in the entire United States.

We would like to thank everyone in the AutoGyro community for their support as we navigated this lengthy challenge. We are grateful to the FAA for their communication and consideration throughout the appeal process and are excited to focus on what we do best, designing and building safe beautiful gyroplanes.

Our happy customers Eddy and Vicki Swamy were the first ones to take their new Cavalon delivery at the AutoGyro USA office in Maryland – and enjoyed their amazing journey across the US.
Enjoy the Difference!

 

[WaspAir]

I'm sure that it will. But to a significant or detrimental degree? I would hope AG would not incorporate such changes without analysis. I await to see the actual implementation.

I'd make a small bet that you wouldn't notice it.

 

[Abid]

Brent going off canopy topic - AG posted this theother day

Back in the air again!

We want to offer our congratulations to the AutoGyro USA Team, their patient owners, and the AutoGyro Certification Team for their success in appealing the imposition of helicopter fuel system safety requirements in gyroplanes.
We are all grateful for the careful consideration and understanding of the different operational characteristics given within the FAA, leveraging the new AIR Issue Resolution and Appeal Process. All aircraft that were temporarily grounded have been released into service without any modifications required. The entire AutoGyro team is thrilled to be back in full production as the only provider of factory built, Primary Category type-certificated gyroplanes in the entire United States.

We would like to thank everyone in the AutoGyro community for their support as we navigated this lengthy challenge. We are grateful to the FAA for their communication and consideration throughout the appeal process and are excited to focus on what we do best, designing and building safe beautiful gyroplanes.

Our happy customers Eddy and Vicki Swamy were the first ones to take their new Cavalon delivery at the AutoGyro USA office in Maryland – and enjoyed their amazing journey across the US.
Enjoy the Difference!

This isn't quite right.
FAA has just on May 12, 2023 sent out advisory to all field offices about AG machines and basically advising that the aircraft are not compliant. The advisory will advise field offices to send letters to all owners about invalidity of the Primary Category cert of their machines and their options to be able to fly them using Exp-Exhibition cert or making modifications to comply.
I think the focus should be on SLSA gyroplanes using ASTM compliance because otherwise they will keep dealing with whatever is done for helicopters.

 

[Peterpilot]

This isn't quite right.
FAA has just on May 12, 2023 sent out advisory to all field offices about AG machines and basically advising that the aircraft are not compliant. The advisory will advise field offices to send letters to all owners about invalidity of the Primary Category cert of their machines and their options to be able to fly them using Exp-Exhibition cert or making modifications to comply.
I think the focus should be on SLSA gyroplanes using ASTM compliance because otherwise they will keep dealing with whatever is done for helicopters.

Do you have a copy of the letter? I have a copy of the appeal decision that backs up AG’s story. If the May 12 2023 letter exists as you describe, it would be in direct violation of the Associate Administrator’s final decision.

 

[Abid]

Do you have a copy of the letter? I have a copy of the appeal decision that backs up AG’s story. If the May 12 2023 letter exists as you describe, it would be in direct violation of the Associate Administrator’s final decision.

Oh it exists. Maybe it was an overlapping guidance that will not apply after the associate administrator's final decision. I have no way of knowing. When was the final decision released? i think mid April. If so, the May 12th letter is many weeks later. I guess the next AG owners of Cavalon will find out. One way for owners and future owners is to call their FAA MIDO and ask about this specific issue. Unfortunately when you try to play certification, you are subject to all rules and regs and ADs whether they seem logical and reasonable to your model or not.

 

[nishanh]

Got a picture of it today.

 

[Abid]

Got a picture of it today.

Yup to fit 6'3" guys we had to do similar shape but a bit more smoother curve for us. This looks a little bit closer to old Apollo AG-1 canopy shape. You have more pics? It does change flight characteristics. You have to co-ordinate more. Our tail section is 4 inches further back now (also new tail has a more effective/different cleaner airfoil) than before because of the canopy to compensate. As you change power significantly you need to apply left or right rudder which you do not need to do at all in open AR-1 and when you turn you need to make sure you are applying rudder to co-ordinate which in open AR-1 you can almost put your feet on the floor in flight and do nothing except for takeoff, full power climb and for landing. In Calidus and even in MTO Sport and in Magni M24, you have to do those things as is to an extent by the way so may not be a big difference for those models.

 

[MikeBoyette]

Got a picture of it today.

Not usually a fan of most of their choices in how the machines they build are engineered. Some of the stuff is not what I would consider user friendly or made of what I would consider quality materials. This being said aesthetically, this is beautiful. It’s very pleasing to the eye. The lines are very smooth and doesn’t look like an afterthought.

Still wish they would at the very least get rid of the push pull cables on primary controls. They must not have ever owned a boat in an environment like Florida. No one I mean no one I know would ever willingly rely on any kind of push pull cable, whether it be stainless or not for primary controls. Too many boaters here in Florida have experienced those cables, jamming or braking with no warning whatsoever. To those that say that they weren’t properly taken care of their sealed, so how could they not be?

 

[nishanh]

Yup to fit 6'3" guys we had to do similar shape but a bit more smoother curve for us. This looks a little bit c;loser to old Apollo AG-1 canopy shape. You have more pics? It does change flight characteristics. You have to co-ordinate more. Our tail section is 4 inches further back now (also new tail has a more effective/different cleaner airfoil) than before because of the canopy to compensate. As you change power significantly you need to apply left or right rudder which you do not need to do at all in open AR-1 and when you turn you need to make sure you are applying rudder to co-ordinate which in open AR-1 you can almost put your feet on the floor in flight and do nothing except for takeoff, full power climb and for landing. In Calidus and even in MTO Sport and in Magni M24, you have to do those things as is to an extent by the way so may not be a big difference for those models.

I have no other pictures at the moment, Abid. This one was forwarded to me by AG from another aircraft. But I'll take more when my actual kit is delivered. Currently slated for sometime in July.

 

[WaspAir]

Yup to fit 6'3" guys we had to do similar shape but a bit more smoother curve for us. This looks a little bit closer to old Apollo AG-1 canopy shape. You have more pics? It does change flight characteristics. You have to co-ordinate more. Our tail section is 4 inches further back now (also new tail has a more effective/different cleaner airfoil) than before because of the canopy to compensate. As you change power significantly you need to apply left or right rudder which you do not need to do at all in open AR-1 and when you turn you need to make sure you are applying rudder to co-ordinate which in open AR-1 you can almost put your feet on the floor in flight and do nothing except for takeoff, full power climb and for landing. In Calidus and even in MTO Sport and in Magni M24, you have to do those things as is to an extent by the way so may not be a big difference for those models.

I don't think we're making the same comparison. You seem to be comparing an open cockpit to a full canopy. I thought we were comparing the prior full canopy to a new canopy that is merely a few inches taller for more headroom.

Are you really expecting a slightly taller canopy to make significant handling differences over the prior canopy?

 

[Abid]

I don't think we're making the same comparison. You seem to be comparing an open cockpit to a full canopy. I thought we were comparing the prior full canopy to a new canopy that is merely a few inches taller for more headroom.

Are you really expecting a slightly taller canopy to make significant handling differences over the prior canopy?

AR-1 is open cockpit. AR-1C is convertible. It is enclosed if you want and you can take off the canopy package when weather gets warmer to fly open with windshields.

Yes a few extra inches high canopy in front seat ahead of the CG makes a difference. Simply the CP moves farther forward for the system introducing less yaw dampening. You have to compensate with extra vertical tail volume or better tail airfoil or cleaning airflow that gets to the tail somehow. The canopy shape taking a sharper angle also disrupts airflow heading back. I cannot say what the effect would be in a particular design without testing.

 

[WaspAir]

I cannot say what the effect would be in a particular design without testing.

That much we agree on.

 

[Abid]

That much we agree on.

And you don’t agree on anything else?

 

[Smack]

Hmmmm, what would Chuck say right about now...

 

[Abid]

Hmmmm, what would Chuck say right about now...

I don't know what Chuck would say and I certainly did not agree with some of his ideas but static yaw stability is fairly well defined and having a larger front side area ahead of CG can have an affect on it for sure as the fin gets in the wake of the forward body or fuselage at certain incidence angles as a yaw disturbance increase Beta to the point where vertical fin's airfoil can approach stall. Using an airfoil with better characteristics and adding things like dorsal fins helps. Moving the fin airfoil farther back where the wake of the forward body in expected angle of incidences reached by forward fuselage does not effect the fin as much is also a good frame to work with.

Directional Static Stability - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[MikeBoyette]

Hmmmm, what would Chuck say right about now...

Yeah he was no fan of any of the Euro tubs. That includes the clones made in the US. I asked him once if he would ride in one of them with push pull cables with an airframe made of stainless. His response was classic Chuck. “Kid I wouldn’t get out of the electric chair to get in one of those things”.