New Air Command Accident Analysis Report

[C. Beaty]

The problem, when assigning probable cause to a gyro accident, is that the investigator, as likely as not, has never before seen a gyro. He follows a “by the numbers” procedure, checking for the presence of fuel in the float bowl, determining whether or not the engine is locked up and attempts to establish control continuity.

If there are no red flags on his check list, then “probable cause” is most likely pilot error.

A striking example of misuse of probable cause is ground rollovers in RAF-2000s. There are 52 reported accidents out of 257 machines on the FAA registry (there could be a few more registered under different names) and except for the 13 or so that tumbled out of the air, most are rollovers.

When the pilot of an RAF allows the nosewheel to touch down while holding rudder, a rollover is likely if there is any forward speed due to the hard coupling between rudder and nosewheel. This typically goes down as pilot error and most RAF boosters agree.

OTH, if steering was by differential braking with a free castering nosewheel, most such rollovers would be avoided.

Most gyro fatalities are tumble accidents where the rotor chops off the vertical tail and the machine flips forward, leaving a smoking hole, usually called loss of control in the NTSB reports.

The propensity to tumble can be eliminated through proper design. Then, training doesn’t become a situation like learning to ride a unicycle on a high wire.

 

[fiveboy]

The propensity to tumble can be eliminated through proper design. Then, training doesn’t become a situation like learning to ride a unicycle on a high wire.

To me this is one of the most obvious and well phrased analogies of what the real situation is. I cant believe (as in another thread that just started) that whether a HS is of value is still a controversy. I am trying to think of other aircraft that dont use them... and why? Im coming up blank.

 

[DennisFetters]

To me this is one of the most obvious and well phrased analogies of what the real situation is. I cant believe (as in another thread that just started) that whether a HS is of value is still a controversy. I am trying to think of other aircraft that dont use them... and why? Im coming up blank.

I never said anything of the kind. Why would you post that here? I have always said that a horizontal stabilizer is beneficial, and absolutely necessary on a Gyroplane with a pod.

I am not being disrespectful, but I do ask that you become more informed before posting something like this. I realize you may have meant it for the RAF and not me, but you can see how someone reading would be confused.

 

[gyromike]

To me this is one of the most obvious and well phrased analogies of what the real situation is. I cant believe (as in another thread that just started) that whether a HS is of value is still a controversy. I am trying to think of other aircraft that dont use them... and why? Im coming up blank.

Trikes don't have horizontal stabs on them.
And yes, they can tumble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_vbrMUCuZE

 

[gyromike]

I never said anything of the kind. Why would you post that here? I have always said that a horizontal stabilizer is beneficial, and absolutely necessary on a Gyroplane with a pod.

I am not being disrespectful, but I do ask that you become more informed before posting something like this. I realize you may have meant it for the RAF and not me, but you can see how someone reading would be confused.

I think Fiveboy was referring to a new thread started this morning, not something you said:

https://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21000

 

[fiveboy]

I never said anything of the kind. Why would you post that here? I have always said that a horizontal stabilizer is beneficial, and absolutely necessary on a Gyroplane with a pod.

I am not being disrespectful, but I do ask that you become more informed before posting something like this. I realize you may have meant it for the RAF and not me, but you can see how someone reading would be confused.

Dennis I was in NO WAY implying you said that. That was an informed opinion and a sincere question not an accusation whatsoever.

If you do the research (and I dont suggest you should even bother), you will find that I am actually a respectful defender of your authority, just sometimes not your "style".

 

[birdy]

When the pilot of an RAF allows the nosewheel to touch down while holding rudder, a rollover is likely if there is any forward speed due to the hard coupling between rudder and nosewheel. This typically goes down as pilot error and most RAF boosters agree.

An easy fix to this hazard CB is to leave a little power on wen touchn down, so's the rudder has more authority.
First thing i noticed wen i first landed the wasa one up was the tendancy for the machine to yaw rite.
Thats coz im sitn on the left, and my weight is maken the machine yaw wen flairn.
A little popwer will stop alota rollovers.
It flairs strate with two up.

 

[gab76]

Fatality in OZ 20 years ago

Fatality in OZ 20 years ago

OzyRuss

I remember the gentleman from OZ. I believe he owned an electricity company? His company's slogan was, "Let us remove your shorts". A real nice man and family.

Yes, he did train in Missouri and did not receive a solo endorsement from me. With it being so many years ago, I can't relay my opinion on how good a student he was. One thing I can say, there was no more communication from him after he arrived home. I do believe he traveled about and got more instruction in the US before returning home.

I did receive a card from his wife saying he had perished flying his gyroplane. It was quite a shock to me and my family. She wrote that the authorities had ruled this death, a heart-attack. The gyroplane, she said of witness reports, was flying straight and level, then banked over and flew into the ground without a correction by the pilot. It was a unforgettable loss to me. A health issue is a health issue on the ground but can be aggravated by the stress of flight. So please let me help Dennis here by setting the record straight.

The tragedy to all gyroplane instructors are the out-of-towners who need a trainer but have none locally where they live. In the spirit of the FAA philosophy, an instructor is to continue to monitor and supervise each flight of a student in the name of safety, being a local student and easily accessible to each other. Unfortunately, gyroplane flight and instruction do not enjoy this safety program as does the fixed-wing community. That I believe is where gyroplanes have gotten their bad name for deaths and accidents. There is alot of ways our community could have answered that by putting more instructors to work and that means $$ for scholarships, policing good instructors and approved training curriculum. Be it bad or good, I left training in 1990 because I could not maintain control over a student after he/she left.

Five years ago, I began again training at AC in Caddo Mills, TX with poor equipment. I have since helped AC transition to Subaru power systems to have a wonderful training platform. My own machine here in KC is now done and will be inspected next month. In regards to training, my time will allow work with only local gyroplane students or ones I can travel to see and sponsor. But I will not work with students who do not fit this category. My students in Texas, are drive-ins, not fly-ins. If I work with three guys a summer, that are close and I have absolute control over their training to solo and/or rating, so be it. I don't have to live on the money I make training. I do not need the volume of students to live at the expense of their lives! I will not operate a revolving door training site for a sport that requires so much in safety out of the student and instructor.

 

[DennisFetters]

OzyRuss
I remember the gentleman from OZ. With it being so many years ago, I can't relay my opinion on how good a student he was. One thing I can say, there was no more communication from him after he arrived home. I do believe he traveled about and got more instruction in the US before returning home. ....
I did receive a card from his wife saying he had perished flying his gyroplane. It was quite a shock to me and my family. She wrote that the authorities had ruled this death, a heart-attack. The gyroplane, she said of witness reports, was flying straight and level, then banked over and flew into the ground without a correction by the pilot. It was a unforgettable loss to me. A health issue is a health issue on the ground but can be aggravated by the stress of flight. So please let me help Dennis here by setting the record straight.

Thank you Greg, for once again helping to set the record straight.

 

[C. Beaty]

When the pilot of an RAF allows the nosewheel to touch down while holding rudder, a rollover is likely if there is any forward speed due to the hard coupling between rudder and nosewheel. This typically goes down as pilot error and most RAF boosters agree.

An easy fix to this hazard CB is to leave a little power on wen touchn down, so's the rudder has more authority.
First thing i noticed wen i first landed the wasa one up was the tendancy for the machine to yaw rite.
Thats coz im sitn on the left, and my weight is maken the machine yaw wen flairn.
A little popwer will stop alota rollovers.
It flairs strate with two up.

Whatever the defect, Birdy, there’s generally a workaround.

People manage with false teeth, wooden legs and hearing aids when they must.

 

[OzyRuss]

Greg.........thankyou for this. I have no reason to disbelieve you here, this is news to me.
Witness told me exactly the same scenario of the matter..........lost control, flew into ground. With my view that these machines were "flawed", and the same view held by many others BTW, it was a no brainer that is was machine caused.
I rang a couple of our mates this morning re your info, they too had no idea that it was a medical condition, Peter was a man early 30's, fit / active / bouyant, to hear your explanation is a total shock.

To dennis, thankyou for persuing this to this outcome, me, and other mates of peters are now wiser as to the real cause of this sad event.

 

[scott heger]

Dennis, I understand you wanting to defend your various gyros and helicopters and setting what you consider,to be the record straight. It is only natural considering so much of your life has been dedicated to these projects. Your accomplishments in aviation are many. However each time any criticism comes up, it seems you fail to acknowledge hardly any culpability in design flaws. Hind sight is 20-20. The classic AirCommands were not the easiest flying gyro ever produced. I agree proper training would bring gyro accident rates to near zero, no matter who the kit manufacture is. Most gyro accidents can be easily explained away, and rightfully so, as pilot error.

It is hard to think about all those accomplishments without mentioning the disaster of the helicopter side. Many people got financially screwed or died in those Mini's. Gyro plots (me included)on this forum will always remember you for what you positively did for gyros, but to the broader GA industry(a MUCH larger group of pilots) will not forgive you for what happened on the kit Helicopter side. I believe that will be the larger legacy that you are remembered for in aviation.

I just don't understand why you keep setting yourself up for this kind of scrutiny. I hope your current projects and accomplishments bring you only future financial and commercial success. You are to be commended for taking the risks involved , and to keep going. However never forget the losses families have suffered that has been related to your business ventures. I know you think I am a jerk, but stop by anytime and talk to me personally about this. Maybe you can change my opinion. You know where to find me, this is a open invitation.

Scott Heger,Laguna Niguel,Ca N86SH