New Air Command Accident Analysis Report

[DennisFetters]

Let me say this, and then its all yours;

What other pioneer, designer or manufacturer has ever come to an open forum and offered to help anyone, talk to anyone or explain himself to anyone? I did, and I came here under fire the first day, and every day after that. What a mistake.

No one has been so disrespected, and all because I participate in your discussions and open myself up to this reticule. When I defend myself, then I'm made out to be the bad guy. You wonder why I'm abrasive in my responses to some of these idiots, well if you have been bashed around as long as I have you would be rubbed a little raw to. But, the most of you let it happen, too afraid to stand up to the bullies.

Most of you today are flying gyroplanes with my technologies. Even the Little bit of advancements made today, still are made on the beginnings of what I developed.

Enjoy your Rotax engines? That was me, I was the first to develop and fly one in a gyro, and bring them to market.

Enjoy your larger propellers for more efficiency? That was me that first did that, and made gyroplanes perform as they do today.

Enjoy the triangulated airframes on most gyro? That was me that made that design.

Enjoy the improved and more stable nose wheel designs? I developed that too.

How about your rotorheads? Yes, most now are based on my Air Command.

And much more.

Now, as a innovator, pioneer, aircraft designer and manufacturer, I want to tell you from the bottom of my heart, thank you for your warm and kind regards. I have felt very welcomed.

I wish I could say that, but I can't, because my worst enemy is here among you, and having to deal with some in this ungrateful mob that call themselves a brotherhood of pilots.

 

[SnoBird]

What other pioneer, designer or manufacturer has ever come to an open forum and offered to help anyone, talk to anyone or explain himself to anyone?

Chuck Beaty is indisputedly one of the greatest living gyro pioneers (along with Ken Wallace), and he helps out tons here. I also used to really enjoy reading his articles in Rotorcraft mag (when I received it years ago). But you do too Dennis, and I really appreciate hearing your perspective. And I agree, it's gotta be hard to constantly get beat up on like that. I don't think you deserve it. You made many very significant advancements, you basically picked up right where Bensen left off. You threw your hat in the ring and did your best; I really respect that. I'm glad I don't have a ring of people taking note of all my mistakes in the past 25 years and constantly harping on me for it :rant:, god knows I've made plenty of them. Who hasn't?

 

[Jens]

Take it as a game.

Take it as a game.

.….. I'm glad I don't have a ring of people taking note of all my mistakes in the past 25 years and constantly harping on me for it :rant:, god knows I've made plenty of them. Who hasn't?

Those who do litlle or nothing. (And of course those who are thoroughly covering up what they are doing.)

Chear up Dennis!
Take it as a game.

 

[chuter]

Let me say this, and then its all yours;

What other pioneer, designer or manufacturer has ever come to an open forum and offered to help anyone, talk to anyone or explain himself to anyone? I did, and I came here under fire the first day, and every day after that. What a mistake.

No one has been so disrespected, and all because I participate in your discussions and open myself up to this reticule. When I defend myself, then I'm made out to be the bad guy. You wonder why I'm abrasive in my responses to some of these idiots, well if you have been bashed around as long as I have you would be rubbed a little raw to. But, the most of you let it happen, too afraid to stand up to the bullies.

Most of you today are flying gyroplanes with my technologies. Even the Little bit of advancements made today, still are made on the beginnings of what I developed.

Enjoy your Rotax engines? That was me, I was the first to develop and fly one in a gyro, and bring them to market.

Enjoy your larger propellers for more efficiency? That was me that first did that, and made gyroplanes perform as they do today.

Enjoy the triangulated airframes on most gyro? That was me that made that design.

Enjoy the improved and more stable nose wheel designs? I developed that too.

How about your rotorheads? Yes, most now are based on my Air Command.

And much more.

Now, as a innovator, pioneer, aircraft designer and manufacturer, I want to tell you from the bottom of my heart, thank you for your warm and kind regards. I have felt very welcomed.

I wish I could say that, but I can't, because my worst enemy is here among you, and having to deal with some in this ungrateful mob that call themselves a brotherhood of pilots.

Dennis,

IMHO:

Chuck Beaty has offered much more on this forum than you.

The advancments you mention would have been made by someone else if not you; they were coming out in other categories, they would have made it to gyros without your help.

You did a lot to promote the sport and should be commended for that, but man, your head has really swelled up.

Eat a few humble pills and chill out.

 

[joe vitable]

moderator-right?

moderator-right?

Fiveboy, you do know, that in Dennis' eyes, your gyro is not a aircommand, but a ugly CLT machine.... Right?



And Dennis, I am a moderator, but you never contacted me to come here and clean up your thread. Reading the last 2 pages I would have to say I would have to delete more of your posts than anyone elses. Your the one calling names and attacking people as far as I can tell.

Ugly clt comment stupid for regular member but for a moderator off the chart-also your threat on page 9 was not at all called for---I have flown both non-clt(great Air Command and great RAF)and clt (dominator) and see no difference--I agree clt is safer if you more experenced members say so---but I still believe a non clt is fine for a well trained pilot----NO one(I think Dennis included) says at this point that clt are not more forgiving--WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT--let me know!! PS-Remember those Air Command ADS--they were greatly reponsible for moving the sport foward----Joe

 

[GyroRon]

Joe, Dennis has repeatedly stated his dislike of the tall stance CLT machines. He has called them ugly on many occasions. Fiveboy flys a CLT aircommand tandem, and if you go along with what Dennis has said, it is safe to assume Dennis considers it ugly. That was the jest of my comment.

As a moderator I am still allowed to have a opinion and post like the rest of you. My own posts can be moderated by the other moderators if I say something out of line.

And as far as a threat, what threat? This thread really should be deleted, that isn't a threat, that is a fact. I am leaving it up here for now, not to keep the bashing going, but hopefully for all these grown men to kiss and make up. When you step back and look at this from afar, the whole thing is silly, both sides....

 

[Canadian Rhino]

Ron I think this thread was able to take a little trip into history and may even show some of us what we have to look forward to in life and to some others what might have been missed.
It sounds like he has hauled in his horns now so lets see what he may have to say after he has cooled down a bit.
Ya just never know!:der:

 

[joe vitable]

GYRORON-The thread was started with facts--very unusual in itseff--I posted crash data on the RAF and got the same response-maybe some of you can not face the fact that most of those that were killed were commiting stupid acts.You still place the blame on the machine--Maybe RAF should have placed a device on their machine that would not allow startup by a non trained person during a snowstorm etc-etc-etc.ps--Just think your responses should show a little more leadership! PSS-MY DOMINATOR(the design) IS UGLY AS CRAP!!

 

[Canadian Rhino]

Well I guess we know who Joe is!
Well Dennis I see your logic now!
You will push to have the whole thread wiped out by a moderator so that a month from now you will be able to claim that this thread never existed and you never called any one anything!
Crafty indeed!:rip:

 

[birdy]

But if you want to call yourself smartass….. Ok accepted.
No wunder you dont understand.
It was Dennis that called me a smartass.
I take it inglish is your second lingo?

But, the most of you let it happen, too afraid to stand up to the bullies.
Oh no, wot shall i do now, im a big bully.

Enjoy your Rotax engines? That was me, I was the first to develop and fly one in a gyro, and bring them to market.

Enjoy your larger propellers for more efficiency? That was me that first did that, and made gyroplanes perform as they do today.

Enjoy the triangulated airframes on most gyro? That was me that made that design.

Enjoy the improved and more stable nose wheel designs? I developed that too.

How about your rotorheads? Yes, most now are based on my Air Command.

And much more.
Wot a load of egotistical crap Dennis.
This is why people are pissed at you. You keep harpn on bout BS like this.
Like nun of it was go'n to happen i spose?

I could say i was the first to put real suspension ona RAF, and the first to mount a 914 ona RAF, or design a r22 style stick ina RAF, or the first to experiance rotor ice [ 3 times] and the first to cyclicly stall rotors and survive to tell, or the first to hit a roo ina gyro, or the first to shoot the antenea off me gps witha 44mag bla bla bla, .
So wut?
Not like nun of that was never go'n to happen if i didnt?

 

[GyroRon]

I get a chuckle when I hear people call the tall stance machines Ugly.

I will admit, The RAF 2000 is a better looking aircraft than a Sparrowhawk. But that is about it as far as low verses high machines and what I think looks good.

What looks better, a old Scorpion helicopter, sitting a few inches off the ground, or a Hughes 500 that sits considerably high off the ground on tall gear?

Does it matter which one looks better?

Is looks more important than safety?

 

[joe vitable]

Manners

Manners

Well I guess we know who Joe is!
Well Dennis I see your logic now!
You will push to have the whole thread wiped out by a moderator so that a month from now you will be able to claim that this thread never existed and you never called any one anything!
Crafty indeed!:rip:

Rhino-thought Canadian's had more manners--what problem do you have with me---maybe because I deal only in facts and personal experience--Again-fly ugly clt's(I have one) if you want a more forgiving machine and get plenty of training if you fly a non clt-if this does not satisfy your group ?? The first time a person with no training flys a Dominator into a tree or flys in a snowstorm and is killed you can start bad mouthing clts-Joe 713-302-0292

 

[Lee Scatt]

Hey Joe, What factor influenced you enough to cause you to buy an ugly Dominator?

 

[GyroCFI]

Sorry Guys,
I'm one of the buys that fall in the category of those who admire Dennis for what he's done for the gyroplane movement. I've been flying gyros for over 20 years with my first being a Bensen type. I remember the Kitplanes article that described the ultralight show in Las Vegas and how Dennis took off from the parking lot, circled some of the lights and landed in the same spot. It really inspired me to look at his design which I ended up flying and training in for years. In fact outside of the original Bensen and my J-2, all of the other gyros i've owned have been based in some fashion on Dennis' designs.

I've watched the mud slinging for years not only on this forum but others that preceded it. The same arguments that people are using here to bash Dennis could be used to describe the Bensen as well. Do you think he would have gained any notibility if he wasn't the first one to do that?

I applaud Dennis for what he's done for the furtherance of this sport and I'm glad that I've had the pleasure to deal with him on many different occasions. He has a wealth of knowledge that he's willing to share with all of us and I for one choose to take advantage of his expertise.

 

[fiveboy]

Itsa easy to confer Sainthood on people who are no longer here. Bensen, DeCierva, Wallis (well hes still here), Brock, etc etc..... but when the guy is a defensive egotist who goes down clawing and kicking and name calling.... its harder to hold him on a pedestal. But really Dennis is, in his own way and for his contributions overall, in the same company of innovators and founding fathers.... hes just so..... unpalatable.

Still I really do think that there ought to be a lifetime achievement award or something given at Benson Days or another venue. If in accepting Dennis tells everyone to go to Hell, then we know hes just plain weird.... but I woudnt think that would be the case.

Even an ugly bat eats many times his weight in mosquitos.

 

[Rotor Rooter]

Just a simple question.

Just a simple question.

What participant on the Rotary Wing Forum has done more to develop, to build, and to promote recreational rotorcraft, both gyrocopters and helicopters, than Dennis Fetters?

 

[All_In]

Itsa easy to confer Sainthood on people who are no longer here. Bensen, DeCierva, Wallis (well hes still here), Brock, etc etc..... but when the guy is a defensive egotist who goes down clawing and kicking and name calling.... its harder to hold him on a pedestal. But really Dennis is, in his own way and for his contributions overall, in the same company of innovators and founding fathers.... hes just so..... unpalatable.

Still I really do think that there ought to be a lifetime achievement award or something given at Benson Days or another venue. If in accepting Dennis tells everyone to go to Hell, then we know hes just plain weird.... but I woudnt think that would be the case.

Even an ugly bat eats many times his weight in mosquitos.

I think I agree Rob, not sure what to believe or how much credit to give, I wasn't paying any attention back then and many of the pros and some of his past customers state their horrible facts only to be called names back by Dennis and I don't know who to believe regarding if he helped or hurt more folks. I do trust you so I'm proceeding with the suggestion you emailed me!

It would have helped me if I hadn't learned that Dennis was a innovator and founding father from Dennis telling us himself, or really from reading almost every thread he posts the same statement to defend his past. I wish I had heard it from you first!

Dennis confuses me on posts like this one. Seems he's stating (and trying to convince newbie's) we all could just start out in his old style gyro and just get training and here is the accident reports to prove it.

This is at odds to everything I learned here and from studying Nasa's and other scientific aerodynamic reports on the subject and my vast experience flying different type aircraft a newbie learning in any aircraft with a restrictive/ or reduced flight envelope in all flight attitudes is just stupid!!! That's why All fix wing manufactures have training models.

I'm getting a ugly (she looks beautiful to me) underpowered dominator with a huge tail and will fly it for the first 100 hours. Then if I can fly by the seat of my pants like I do fixed wing aircraft I will progress to a more unstable gyro!

If you know he's done and is doing more good than bad for our sport, I'm All IN!

 

[barnstorm2]

What participant on the Rotary Wing Forum has done more to develop, to build, and to promote recreational rotorcraft, both gyrocopters and helicopters, than Dennis Fetters?

Nothing more then an unstructured opinion question when worded that way.

And which counts more? Gyros or Helicopters?

There is a strong case for gyros but the overall reputation* of the Mini 500 is considered by most as a negative.

*(please note. I am not saying that the reputation is deserved. Everything I know about the Mini-500 saga is second and third hand. I reserve the right to believe in Dennis' responses that counter the alleged accounts of mis-doings while running revolution helicopters).

Also, are we talking past, present or both?

In the past Dennis' accomplishments are overwhelming and changed our industry.

I don't think anyone should be knocked for designing an 80's HTL gyro in the 80's. In fact the AC's had stock factory HStabs available and the 447 did not have the power to be (IMHO) an aggressive PPO'er.

Currently, however, gyro manufacturers are working to dispel the 'killing machine' stigma that has nearly destroyed our sport as a result of the flawed designs of the 80's and 90's.

Dennis is not currently, entirely 'on board' with this new dedication to safe gyroplane designs and that is a bit of a negative. A big negative when you consider our fatality rate from PPO's is the #1 reason our market has failed to be more popular than trikes, PPGs, PPCs and the like.

Many of the great people on this forum do not evangelize themselves and their resume like Dennis does. I doubt many people are aware of what some of the people around here have done for our sport.

Just one example is Greg Gremminger. Were it not for him our entire sport would have collapsed in the USA because of the FAA withdrawing our ability to train in our Experimental 2-Place machines.

Were it not for advances in understanding the flaws of the 80-90's gyro designs our sport may have folded entirely just from our tragic fatality record. People like Chuck Beaty and others got disrespected and bullied but stuck with it for the good of all of us and our sport.

Dennis gets an A+++++ for past efforts.
an D- for current efforts
and I do not have any 1st hand experience to rate the Mini-500 efforts.

Dennis has the past working for him but he continues to unravel his positive progress by his reluctance to accept what we now know about stability, CLT and PPO's. What good does it do to innovate a new engine, form a successful kit company in the hey-day of home-building and then publicly support the #1 threat to the continued existence to the sport?

If we were voting for a Catch-22 or most enigmatic person then Dennis wins hands down.

Can you imagine what would have happened if Dennis had not sold off AC and he had been receptive to learning about CLT from C.Beaty and others? We would have had the industry leader producing sexy-looking stable gyroplanes well before the down-turn in the market. Furthermore, the company would have been lead by Dennis' aggressive marketing and sales methods. Maybe, we would have had a gyroplane in every-one's garage by the year 2001....

.

.

.

 

[chuter]

Then if I can fly by the seat of my pants like I do fixed wing aircraft I will progress to a more unstable gyro!

John, IMHO that would be REGRESSING. :yo:

 

[Rotor Rooter]

Tim,

You mention some valid points, such as the first when you say;

Nothing more then an unstructured opinion question when worded that way.

____________________

Also, are we talking past, present or both?

In the past Dennis' accomplishments are overwhelming and changed our industry.

Dennis has implied on a couple of recent posts that he is intending to introduce another rotorcraft. This of course, would be built upon his past experiences, both the good ones and the bad ones.

Should this be the case, it is a positive for Dennis and others to discuss and correct previous errors and assumptions, IMHO.


Dave