Need help with a turbine project

[baronpilot]

Ok, I know this belongs in the Off Topic section, but I figure the Helicycle guys can help me.

I want to do a Turbine powered golf cart and like the idea of the Tiernay T10 for it's size and parts availability. It is a single stange turbine just like the Solar T62.

The ouput is roughly 80-100HP with a final shaft speed of 12k RPM. There is a gear kit available to bring that down to 6k.

Since it is a single stage, how would you actually get the power to the wheels? Could you have a snowmobile clutch modified to engage at 6k and the increased torque as the throttle is incresed would drive the secondary assembly of that clutch to a higher "gear" automatically?

This sounds like a job for Chris Krug

 

[StanFoster]

Todd- Chris Krug would be the man. Hey, I was going to tell you about a tractor nearby to my town of Paxton. It is a rare International Harvester tractor ...........powered by a Solar turbine! Get this, this was a factory built tractor and International Harvester is who designed and built the Solar turbine. Why dont you hop in your Bonanza and fly over here again, and I will take you over to see the tractor and hear it run. All I have to do is make arrangements with the owner. Stan

 

[Penguin]

That golf cart would almost make golf interesting.
Almost.
No, it wouldn't.
Never mind.

 

[baronpilot]

Actually, I want it to drive to the golf course. I live on the course and think it would be fun to drive to the club house and then hop in one of the regular carts to play. Of course, I want to install an afterburner like Chris has on the Hot Pocket.

Stan, ask Chris if he wants a paid project. I'll send the engine, cart, and whatever else he needs. Would like to see the tractor. Maybe I will fly my Helicycle over and check it out.

 

[hillberg]

Hyd pump to the turbine output with hyd moters on wheel drives bypass valves for the start. The T 10 has an all electric/digital control-the control box checks on every thing, All electric fuel pumps no outer controls at all.

 

[baronpilot]

Ahhhhhh....... I think I have found my builder. Mr. Hillberg, you need a project don't you:boink:

I thought of using the JFS100 instead, but I would still need a clutch, etc. I like your hydraulic idea. Seriously, want a project???

 

[baronpilot]

Don,

So what you are saying is a hydraulic pump mounted to the output shaft with the ability to disengage it on start up.

Would the best way to disengage it be some sort of clutch?

Could a single hydraulic motor be made to work properly instead of two motors? I'm trying to figure out how you would apply even flow to two wheels with two seperate motors?

If the turbine maintains constant RPM I assume the "throttle" would simply be a valve that directs more flow to the motor when called for and directs more to the bypass when less is needed and complete bypass when the throttle is completely let off.

Any idea of what pump and motor would be the correct size?

 

[AirScooter]

6000 rpm for a hydraulic pump is still high, I think they are made but probably cost an arm and a leg. Maybe more gear reduction? As for motors you could just put one hydraulic motor on the input to the stock rear end and hope it holds. Heck might as well add power steering lol.

 

[ylf]

Could also have the turbine drive a generator and use an electric motor to drive the cart. Just take an electric cart and replace the batteries with the turbine powered generator, and of course put in a much more powerful electric motor

Mike

 

[StanFoster]

Todd- Call me. I would love to tackle that project. I have an idea that would cut your costs. Stan

 

[baronpilot]

Stan - Sent PM.

 

[opsled]

12K is to high to spin a standard CVT and also to high for fluid drive.

Clutches don't like much over 10K. 8500 max is much better. You would likely boil any fluid pumping at that rpm too.

Need to gear is down some.

opsled

 

[baronpilot]

OK, I have talked to some "experts" about my project. I told them that I want to take a 80-100HP turbine and make a 1000 lb golf cart go at least 50 MPH and have decent acceleration.

Hydro-drive - Nope. Great for simplicity and good low speed performance, but not doable otherwise.

Snowmobile clutch - Not going to work since it takes an ever increasing (or attempt to) RPM to engage the clutch to a higher gear ratio. With the turbine holding a constant speed the clutch will not increase ratios.

Here is the best suggestion I have had from Doug S: Tiernay Turbine (dirt cheap, readily avaiable, and still produced) geared down to 6k or less with a manual clutch that increases ratio when depessing the "gas pedal" along with an overrunning clutch. The question is: Is there a clutch like this currently used in any application?

I really want to make this project work. I might even put the turbine into a Chrysler Gem or something like that since it is already street legal.

 

[WHY]

Hi Todd

This sort of reminds me of a old motorcycle I owned years ago, it was called a Simplex and V belt driven. It had a jack shaft with a "double variable speed " pulley on it and there were 3 positions, disengaged, low, high

Tony

 

[baronpilot]

Tony,

That is the basic idea, but it really needs to be infinitly variable.

 

[opsled]

Don't know why the CVT wouldn't work.

Engaugement is controled by rpm. Max RPM gives the primary it's highest force to overcome load. Shift rate and load delivery is controled by the secondary. It gets adjusted so-as to keep shift rate at a speed the engine can handle and varys depending on the load applied. They will shift faster down hill (less load) than up hill (more load). Back off the throttle a bit and it and forces cease like an overrunning clutch.

They can be adjusted to pull/shift at a specific preset rpm. Freewheel, coast or cruze a lessor rpms but will go right back up to preset when full throttle is applied or load is increased.

Most two stroke sled engines are peaky with their hp range (1000 rpms or less). Many fall off badly above or below this range. Some need to work in a 500rpm window. CVT's work great here. Most gas powered carts are under 15 hp and are governed for rpm. CVT's work great there too.

If you could gear it down to a max pto speed of say 7500 rpm I think a CVT system would work fine.

opsled

 

[baronpilot]

It sounds likea CVT would work, but I would have to find a way to control the throttle instead of the engine controlling it automatically. These types of turbines run at a constant RPM and change "throttle" according to the load placed on them that is attempting to slow down or speed up the turbine.

 

[StanFoster]

Todd- Again.....Chris Krug is the man. He knows this stuff.....and has been on nationwide TV doing it more than once. I am trying to get him to contact me back in regards to your project and getting him to come to Mentone with his turbine powered pocket rocket...and his famous turbine powered van that hauls butt.

You would love driving his pocket rocket....that thing is so cool. I remember him saying he had $17,000.00 in it.

Stan

 

[Arnie Madsen]

Tony,

That is the basic idea, but it really needs to be infinitly variable.

Have the turbine power a hydraulic pump .... which will power hydraulic motors at the wheels.

The turbine and pump run at a constant speed , and you have infinite speed control (fluid control) to the motors .... plus infinite reverse ... plus automatic braking (when fluid flow is shut off (neutral) it acts as an excellent brake).

No clutches or gears or transmissions needed.

A lot of equipment and industry use this type of power transmission..

 

[baronpilot]

Stan,

Love to have him do the golf cart. I think the golf cart could be done for less than the hot pocket. The hot pocket required a specialty RC turbine along with alot of extras to make it work in such a small package. I can buy a good turbine complete for less than $2,500. From there, the only real challenge is putting the power to the wheels with plenty of space to fit everything. I think I would really get along well with Chris. I loved the video where he raced the pickup truck. The "panel" that was betting on him asked him what modifications he had in the mini-van. He said "well, I installed a cherry-bomb muffler, high rise-intake, etc." I was nearly rolling on the floor laughing. This guy is not only a genius, he is funny as well. You usually do not see these two traits in the same person.

Arnie,

Hydraulic motors will not work. They would be great if I was happy with 20 MPH or less, but are not sufficient for the speeds I am looking for.