My Introduction to PIO and PPO (and survived)

I hadn't considered looking into doing the 10hrs training abroad - it sound like a good idea in priciple. I do have a small logistical problem that I have chronic kidney failure and I need to connect myself for 8 hrs/day to a portable PD dialysis machine and would have to arange for supplies to be forwarde to my training destination. I waould also need to get a motel where I could have the suppleis delivered to and with a ground floor room, as I can't carry the kit upstairs - I have a circulation problem in my legs which limits me to walking at 100 yards at a time!. none of this effects my flying. Flying is now my last and only passion and I am not going to give it up just because of a knackered old body (well I'm 54 this year - but I feel old some times!)

I think your idea about producing a video/DVD is a great idea -I would like to get something along those line going, though I am not sure what practical help I could be. If the DVD was generic enough, demonstarting the bad effects of unstable Gyros, what can be done to make them stable and the handling charactristics of a sorted out Gyro, then you would imaging it would be a great sales tool for producers of mahchines that can be demonstrated to have all the stable charecteristics in the video. These could be given out toprospective purchasers - and then let market forces do the work. I have a number of high traffic websites and I could surely make it available for free download or as a streaming video and make it freely available for any interested pilots - with a little advertising in the GA press.

Where do we go from here?

Do we need to set up a working group? You sound as though you know some guys who may be haappy to get involved - I like it!

Steve Kirkby
 
Hey Steve, Down uner is warmer when the UK and the US are cold. You could miss a winter!!!!!!!!!! :)

I am sure that we could handle those needs, if that's what you wanted to do. I am fortunate that I can train 7 days, and as many times per day as you can handle. I don't take on more than 1 full time student at a time, that way we get the best productivity.

I will find and post the Ballarat(where I live and operate from) web site so that you can conduct some research.

www.ballarat.vic.gov.au

Aussie Paul. :)
 
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Paul,

Thanks for the generous offer, I surely appreciate it. I think it may just be a little far for me to arrange travel too. I have lways wanted to visit Oz, but I guess I shall have to wait for another life!

I understand you know my instructor - Tony Melody? Didnt he visit you with Mike Goldring, the UK RAF agent?

I am not too concerned about having dual instruction with Tony - It's just the principle and irony of having to be put in the position of having the instruction in an unstable Gyro - though if we havve to fly badly configured machines, it does make some sort of sense!.

An update - went to go flying today at Henstridge and saw Tony. he had been contacted by the CAA who want me to get intouch with one of their Doctor's. - I wonder what that's about? I guess I am being hit from all sides!

The potentially good news I heard today was the CAA and PFA have finally agreed to witness a test flight schedule on a Cricket Mk7 (which is undergoing Section T approval). This will be done with it's designed HS fitted and with a dummy fitted. The tests are to be done by three experienced instructors under the scrutany of the 'powers that be'.
It is to try and get some kind of agreement on the effects of a HS in flight.
Previously, they have wanted the Gyro to fully kitted out with transponders that measure everything (from stick forces, control position to accelorometers in all planes) This would have beeen an expensive operation for a private individual and where would you put all this kit without it effecting the performance of the test machine)

So maybe thay are starting to react to some of the pressure being applied from a number of fronts.

That's all for now, I'll keep in touch - and thanks again for your offer

Steve Kirkby
 
Steve said: "Previously, they have wanted the Gyro to fully kitted out with transponders that measure everything (from stick forces, control position to accelorometers in all planes) This would have beeen an expensive operation for a private individual and where would you put all this kit without it effecting the performance of the test machine)"

Actually telemetry gear like that is surprisingly light now -- but you are right that it is quite expensive, as is the time of the sort of pros who can set it up.

AAI has done some testing in the Sparrowhawk along those lines... pretty fully instrumented. As I understand it the instrumentation is available to them when it is not being used in GBAs other programs, such as the Hawk 4 turbine gyroplane. At U of Glasgow they did testing with a VPM 16 (I think) that was not only fully instrumented but had adjustable thrust lines, etc. It's nice to see PFA finally moving in the direction of gyro safety rather than holding it back. I hope the results of the test are published in some easily accessible way.

cheers

-=K=-
 
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stevek said:
... an email I sent to Martin Hollmann... asked me if he could put my email on his site as a warning to others.

Damn me, I read that letter, Steve, and never put it together with this thread. (SFX: Heel of hand hittiing forehead). D'oh!

Two days later, he had received correspondance from John Kitchin flaming him for publishing the email without knowing the whole facts and for potentially upsetting the UK gyro community.

I don't know John Kitchin.

Martin Hollmann replied to John Kitchin in no uncertain terms telling John...

I *do* know Martin fairly well and I got a good howl out of this bit. Martin is a great guy... smart as they come. Opinionated and headstrong... yeah, another one of those self-effacing and modest pilots and designers that have become an archetype. ;) You just have to remember that the Germans invented everything, and you and Martin will get on like a house afire. Seriously, though, Martin is not always right but I would never bet against him on anything to do with aerodynamics or structures, because he's almost always right, which I think beats my average.

There is some very good stuff on Martin's site. The paper his son did has given me many hours of entertainment trying to keep track of all the variables... ¡Ay Chihuahua!

... talking to from Tony Melody...the CAA... now are insisting that I do 10 hours dual instruction in a RAF 2000 to demonstrate my competency.

Gee, some lucky instructor just got handed £1000 of work by the CAA. Who do we know instructs on an RAF in GB... hey... after a nationwide search, I come up with Tony Melody.

Now, that's a remarkable coincidence, innit?

Much of this problem would not happen if PFA did not try to be a tin god and make an experimental amateur-built craft the equivalent of a certificated one in safety (not to mention paperwork). In the certified world, a plane doesn't get into the air until you drop its own weight of documents on the other end of the see-saw.

Not merely wanting to snipe, I'd like to make a positive suggestion. If the PFA could specify in advance what technical details it would like to review for approval, then kit and plans developers could test conforming prototypes against the specific criteria required for certification.

cheers

-=K=-
 
Hognose said:
AAI has done some testing in the Sparrowhawk along those lines... pretty fully instrumented. As I understand it the instrumentation is available to them when it is not being used in GBAs other programs, such as the Hawk 4 turbine gyroplane. At U of Glasgow they did testing with a VPM 16 (I think) that was not only fully instrumented but had adjustable thrust lines, etc. It's nice to see PFA finally moving in the direction of gyro safety rather than holding it back. I hope the results of the test are published in some easily accessible way.



-=K=-

I shall be there, and I know 2 of the pilots involved in the flight tests, so I will report back here how the day appears to go.

steve kirkby
 
Hognose said:
Damn me, I read that letter, Steve, and never put it together with this thread. (SFX: Heel of hand hittiing forehead). D'oh!



I don't know John Kitchin.


-=K=-


John Kitchin is one of the UK's old time pilots and stirrers. He has in the past done some good work for the Gyro community. He was a retired BA commercial pilot on 747's and the like, and used to own the Campbell gyroplane company. He was always doing display work at airshows in his Brithish Airways sponsered Cricket ( recently rebuilt for a TV program).

He found (when he got into Gyro's - 25+ years ago) that there was a movement flying these machines in our West country that were doing so off their own bat . (no training, liscences or any kind of supervision)

He put together with the CAA a framework for the formalizing of the flying, with training schedules etc - and generally straightened up the UK scene.

He was a exceptionally good display pilot but I question his competency in Gyro design and engineering.

Being in the position he is in and his history, his words are taken seriously by the old school authority figures. He hasn't flown now for 20 years - that am aware of, but still likes to put is oar in ocassionally.

I got on well with the guy, but he probably doesn't remember me. When he retired 20 years ago, he moved to Majorca to live on his boat and I have only seen him once since then.

Steve Kirkby
 
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