My Dominator Build

Brent_Brown

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
3,830
Location
Linden, NC
I forgot the shocks mount to the motor mount. OK I would flip the gear box and not change the gear just all the other stuff. If it had to be done. I think your right it is to much work if you have a flying gyro.
 

Screw

Lubricating & Stimulating
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
2,733
Location
Loganville, Ga.
Aircraft
Dominator 2 place/Cessnas & Pipers
Total Flight Time
300+
Screw-in

What about a 63.5 inch prop? If it will fit on a standard Single place Dom, you could get a 618 with 75hp and install the new Kiev 5 blade prop. 63.5 inches is the smallest blade they make in any configuation.

I figure that with a limited prop diameter, you could add blades to make up the differance.

Although it would look mean as hell, I don't know how it would perform. BTW, the 5 blade kiev is $1500. Ouch! But alot less expensive than an Arplast.

Screw-Out
 

Attachments

  • 39_3_aon.jpg
    39_3_aon.jpg
    8.3 KB · Views: 0
  • f_05_250x162.jpg
    f_05_250x162.jpg
    10 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:

Screw

Lubricating & Stimulating
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
2,733
Location
Loganville, Ga.
Aircraft
Dominator 2 place/Cessnas & Pipers
Total Flight Time
300+
Screw-In

On the "For Real" side Barry.....

I hope you decide to with the new Blue Head 582 and a 60 inch Ivo or Warp. These are proven combinations that I know you'll be happy with. Anything else will be an experiment that may or may not perform any better.

With the Ivo and the Warp, you'll have plenty of durability for rough fields and airports.

Screw-Out
 

MikeBoyette

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
2,022
Location
Plant City, Fl
Aircraft
Dominator
Total Flight Time
200+
Ron,
I think Chuck fiqured it out once to be 1% per inch. A 72 in. prop will produce 12% more thrust than a 60 in prop. Dad has made a few Dominators with a 68in prop and they were awsome. When he decided to have jigs built he did not want to build three sets so he got rid of the 68 in airframe. I am not sure but you might be able to just use the chrome moly parts from a two place and raise the mast to accomidate it. You would also have to use a two place tail. That being said you'd have to check with him to see if he would sell you these parts for a single place. I can tell you this a single place Dominator with a 618 with a 68 in prop is an awsome beast. I just happen to know someone that has the only one left. You may know him from the forum. His name is Russ King. His was that last one dad built.
 

Attachments

  • 618 resized.JPG
    618 resized.JPG
    8.7 KB · Views: 1
Last edited:

Screw

Lubricating & Stimulating
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
2,733
Location
Loganville, Ga.
Aircraft
Dominator 2 place/Cessnas & Pipers
Total Flight Time
300+
Screw-In

MikeBoyette said:
Ron,
I think Chuck fiqured it out once to be 1% per inch. A 72 in. prop will produce 12% more thrust than a 60 in prop. Dad has made a few Dominators with a 68in prop and they were awsome. When he decided to have jigs built he did not want to build three sets so he got rid of the 68 in airframe. I am not sure but you might be able to just use the chrome moly parts from a two place and raise the mast to accomidate it. You would also have to use a two place tail. That being said you'd have to check with him to see if he would sell you these parts for a single place. I can tell you this a single place Dominator with a 618 with a 68 in prop is an awsome beast. I just happen to know someone that has the only one left. You may know him from the forum. His name is Russ King. His was that last one dad built.

Let me get this str8! Ernie used to build a single place Dom with the larger tall tail specifically designed to run larger props? Or shall I say, your dad used to build a stubby (one seat) version of his current 2 place machine? Then for kicks, throw a 618 on it with a 68 inch prop?

That sounds like it would be an awsome Beast!

Screw-Out
 

MikeBoyette

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
2,022
Location
Plant City, Fl
Aircraft
Dominator
Total Flight Time
200+
John,
It was he could could consistanly get off with no wind in less than 50 ft. It would climb like 1500 ft a minute. It was awsome. It was on the cover of Rotorcraft somewhere around 1996 or 1997. He built it for himself then a couple of his friends/customers wanted one. I think he may have built two or three total. Then someone came along and offered him so much money for it he could not turn it down and he sold it. The guy later crashed it and never rebuilt it.
 

Attachments

  • 618 resized.JPG
    618 resized.JPG
    8.7 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:

GyroRon

Former Gyro know it all
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
16,629
Location
Fort Mill South Carolina
Aircraft
Waiex/3300 Jab, Phantom UL, Flightstar II UL
Total Flight Time
ALOT
Might Jinx myself but my Blue Head 582 Rotax has 115 happy flying hours in it. So far there has been...

1. No oil leaks on engine or gearbox

2. No jetting issues

3. No overheating issues

4. No ignition issues

5. No vibration issues - such as parts failing or cracking apart

6. No engine outs, it has never skipped a beat not even once

7. Never has taken more than a few pulls to get started

8. Has used between 3-4 gallons per hour of 87 octane fuel with cheap oil

9. has not required any maintance on it at all short of changing the spark plugs which I have changed 3 times so far.

10. It has not let me down.


So..... I ask any and all Hirth Owners to jump in here and give me a list that tops that! ;)
 

GyroRon

Former Gyro know it all
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
16,629
Location
Fort Mill South Carolina
Aircraft
Waiex/3300 Jab, Phantom UL, Flightstar II UL
Total Flight Time
ALOT
MJ I don't need to talk to David, I have seen him work on that engine ALOT to keep it running and have seen some of the problems he has had with it.

Heck I don't know a single F-30 Hirth owner that hasn't had MAJOR problems of one type or another.
 

GyroRon

Former Gyro know it all
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
16,629
Location
Fort Mill South Carolina
Aircraft
Waiex/3300 Jab, Phantom UL, Flightstar II UL
Total Flight Time
ALOT
scottessex said:
Rotax builds a fine product without a doubt.

Oh come on Scott :D You have had the best luck I have seen anyone have with a hirth so far.

You got to admit that the Pros of running a Hirth don't outweight the Cons. Any of the two stroke engines are a gamble as far as being reliable. But the Hirth has proven to be far less reliable than Rotax. Hirths aren't much if any cheaper either.

The Hirth, if built as well as Rotax, should be a better engine. It simply isn't built as well.
 

BUD ONEAL

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
2,202
Location
Ider, Al. 35981
Aircraft
Dominator
Total Flight Time
600+
I have a 68" warp drive prop on my 100hp dom.with the Neil Hintz reduction drive on it . I had to extend the landing gear,the engine mount,ect. to make it work. The performance is truly great. Ernie said that I had flown with maringal power so long that once I got power it scared the crap from me! Here in north alabama it flys bettre than it did in fla.
 

ultracruiser41

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
2,734
Location
NC
Aircraft
Cavalon, OutBack Tango, Ryan PT 22, JetGyro, Jet Provost, Champ, Radial Rocket Gyro, HummelBird
Total Flight Time
Too many to count
Some more pics:

Installed Morse Cables for rudder operation! (won't have to worry about loose cables and it can operate if one side breaks!
 

Attachments

  • DSC00592.JPG
    DSC00592.JPG
    48.7 KB · Views: 0

automan1223

Banned
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
3,760
Location
Oriental, North Carolina
Aircraft
2p Tandem Air Command "Big Red"
Total Flight Time
250
Convert...

Convert...

Mike B. I cannot fathom why your dad would not keep a hot rod in his inventory.

Ron, Scott knows that a little p.m. is worth more than a 4 leaf most of the time. Engines do not run on luck. They run on tlc.

Most of the hirths were not tuned right from the get go, hence all the problems. Once they are tuned and setup I gather they work just as well as a rotax. but air cooled engines do not have the life expectancy of water cooled at least rule of thumb.

Barry, way to go, 2 Q. What will happen to the gyro bee ?
The morse cables will not allow inspections and they break right behind the solid section.
Whats your eta ?

Jonathan
 

GyroRon

Former Gyro know it all
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
16,629
Location
Fort Mill South Carolina
Aircraft
Waiex/3300 Jab, Phantom UL, Flightstar II UL
Total Flight Time
ALOT
I told Barry several times to STOP making changes to a proven design. I am not on board with these cables. They are heavy, expensive and most importantly they have too much drag internally to allow the Dominator tail to self center. By installing these cables, he took a gyro that can be flown feet off, to one that will always need feet on the pedals.

I guess I shouldn't care too much, but I thought I explained it really well as to why you don't see those kinds of cables on most aircrafts to start with, It is like I wasted my time with the suggestions.

Good Luck!
 

MikeBoyette

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
2,022
Location
Plant City, Fl
Aircraft
Dominator
Total Flight Time
200+
Ron,
You sure are a great example. Now Barry is following your lead and using SC's on a Dominator. Great next thing ya know Ya'll will be flying the Taliban flag at Goose Creek. Just kidding lol.
 

GyroRon

Former Gyro know it all
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
16,629
Location
Fort Mill South Carolina
Aircraft
Waiex/3300 Jab, Phantom UL, Flightstar II UL
Total Flight Time
ALOT
Mike, there is nothing wrong with Change if it serves a purpose.

My fuel tank change was to serve a pupose, I believe the thrustline on a Dominator set up like mine is set up is LOWER than the Vertical CG. It is not a bad thing, but I wanted to experiment and get my machine closer to true centerline thrust, so the seat/fuel tanks mod I did was to help bring the offset closer. It wasn't needed change, but it was a fun experiment and I like the way the gyro flys better now.

The rudder cables Barry installed though... We discussed this and his reason for wanting the teleflex cables was to eliminate the chances of a accident should one of the normal cables a Dominator has fails. When a normal Dominator rudder cable fails, the spring tension on the " Good " cables rudder pedal pulls the rudder to full stop in that direction resulting in a loss of control. I told Barry that properly installed cables with good swages and good pulleys and springs and so on, just won't fail and not to worry about it, to build per plans. OR I suggested to not use pulleys or springs at all and to follow Dave Dewinters example and use sleeved cables - like you use for the band brakes on a Dominator - and since the cable is enclosed most of the way from the pedals to the rudder no springs on the pedals are needed to keep the cables tight and if one breaks it is no big deal as the rudder will track straight if flown feet off.

I didn't go into the fact that the Dominator tail is a all flying tail and it does not self center on it's own. The anti servo tab is what self centers it and that tab is what will allow the tail to fly "feet off." Teleflex cables just have too much drag internally in them to allow the anti servo tab to do it's job. These cables will effectively ruin the feel of the rudder, which is one of the things that makes a Dominator fly so good.

As for why he is using Sportcopter blades on his Dominator gyro.... Hey why not? He needed HAND startable blades for his gyrobee and bought Sportcopters since they work good for handstarting. Instead of selling them with his Gyrobee, he is going to keep them for the Dominator. They look good, fly good and smooth and the performance is nearly equal to the Dragon Wings.
 
Top