MTO vs Cavalon

[Maksimus]

Hi dear members

I wonder the major difference in handling and flying characteristics between MTO Sport with 914 engine and Cavalon with the same engine. Pretty much i read all the accidents reported by both. What i see is since 2012 there are almost 64 accidents with MTO and 32 on Cavalon. Not sure about the statistics of how many build how many flying since 2012 but i think more cavalon sold especialy in US.
Although most cavalon accidents seems to be during the take off phase , But what is the cause ? Insufficient Rudder mostly?
They seem to be almost the same gyroplanes in the means of length width height with very slight differences.
But still Im looking for the main reason behind , which seems to be pilot technic but still want to know the root cause. Does it flies or behaves too different than MTO ?
Thanks !

 

[ultracruiser41]

Cavalon is a bit slower being a side by side but other than that….. about the same.
Cavalon is a little bit more effected by crosswinds due to its larger side area.
Great for traveling!

 

[Abid]

Hi dear members

I wonder the major difference in handling and flying characteristics between MTO Sport with 914 engine and Cavalon with the same engine. Pretty much i read all the accidents reported by both. What i see is since 2012 there are almost 64 accidents with MTO and 32 on Cavalon. Not sure about the statistics of how many build how many flying since 2012 but i think more cavalon sold especialy in US.
Although most cavalon accidents seems to be during the take off phase , But what is the cause ? Insufficient Rudder mostly?
They seem to be almost the same gyroplanes in the means of length width height with very slight differences.
But still Im looking for the main reason behind , which seems to be pilot technic but still want to know the root cause. Does it flies or behaves too different than MTO ?
Thanks !

There are 2.5 times or more MTO's out there than Cavalons so your accident stats need to account for that plus MTO fleet is much older and has more hours on it

 

[Vance]

Hi dear members

I wonder the major difference in handling and flying characteristics between MTO Sport with 914 engine and Cavalon with the same engine. Pretty much i read all the accidents reported by both. What i see is since 2012 there are almost 64 accidents with MTO and 32 on Cavalon. Not sure about the statistics of how many build how many flying since 2012 but i think more cavalon sold especialy in US.
Although most cavalon accidents seems to be during the take off phase , But what is the cause ? Insufficient Rudder mostly?
They seem to be almost the same gyroplanes in the means of length width height with very slight differences.
But still Im looking for the main reason behind , which seems to be pilot technic but still want to know the root cause. Does it flies or behaves too different than MTO ?
Thanks !

I have given flight instruction in Cavalons and MTO Sports.

You didn’t ask about the MTO 2017 so I will leave that out of the comparison.

In my opinion the root cause of most gyroplane accidents is pilot error.

In my opinion both the 914 powered Cavalon and MTO Sport have adequate rudder authority and neither are difficult to fly.

I find both very forgiving of pilot error.

A side by side will always be more pitch sensitive because of the lower polar moment compared to a tandem.

Often people use the yaw string in a Cavalon as a gun sight and that leads to misaligned touchdowns.

I find a learner with an enclosed gyroplane has less sense of the effect of the wind compared to an open tandem particularly when landing.

The Cavalon and the MTO Sport are not really comparable and I suggest you fly both before making a decision.

In the USA where I am based Since 2012 a quick look at the NTSB reports there have been twelve reported Cavalon accidents and six reported MTO Sport accidents.

All appear to me to be pilot error.

 

[Maksimus]

Is there anyone around that tried the cavalon with 8.8 Rotor blade? I mean as in POH Cavalon seems to be 50kg heavier than Mto sport. So thinking of buying an 8.8 rotor balde for it. But never flown longer than 8.4. I wonder how much is the impact of the 8.8 vs 8.4 blades on the take off run. In my current condition it takes me around 140-150 meters to take off with my MTO on grass with 430 kg take off weight. Lets say toff weight of 475kg on cavalon. For sure it will increase my toff roll with that extra 50 kg of weight.But i was thinking of compensating for that with an 8.8 rotor blade.Sadly there is not much information or calculations are out there about this. Appreciate any kind of information any one can provide me.

 

[Loren Jones]

Often people use the yaw string in a Cavalon as a gun sight and that leads to misaligned touchdowns.

Can you elaborate on this, Vance? I'm not tracking your thought here.

 

[Vance]

Can you elaborate on this, Vance? I'm not tracking your thought here.

In my opinion the Cavalon sight picture does not have good visual reference points.

Everything I can see is curved.

In The Predator they can use the top of the windshield to reference the horizon and they are sitting on the centerline so the yaw straight makes a useful sighting tool.

I have found some learners in a Cavalon use the yaw string which is in the middle to identify what is straight ahead when straight ahead is actually twenty inches off center.

Put another way they line up the yaw string with the centerline when landing and touchdown with considerable crab.

I put both a vertical line to identify yaw and horizontal line to visually identify pitch on the windshield with pinstripe tape.

I find the vertical line gives them something to line up with the centerline when landing or taking off and the horizontal line allows them to recognize pitch changes by how far the line appears above or below the horizon.

I have found this a challenge in most side by side gyroplanes.

I locate the vertical line stopped on the taxiway using the taxi centerline for reference looking into the distance.

I guess at the horizontal line because it does not need to be as precise.

 

[Mayfield]

I'm always pleasantly surprised at how good most people are kinesthetically. You may have already tried it Vance but I suggest having your student visualize placing the outside edge of their inboard foot on the centerline. Most will be able to do it easily. Then ensure they look straight ahead on the approach and touchdown.

It will feel odd at first to look straight ahead only, but once they have the picture, they will be able to move their head more naturally.

Jim

 

[ARGON Producer]

Abid, you are absolutely right. If we analyze the causes of fatal accidents, the human factor is the overwhelming cause of most of them.

Most modern serial gyroscopes are built with enough care for the pilot. Unfortunately, if a human fails, we have to rely on the design of the gyro to protect us at least a little.

I don't know what they are doing at Magni and AutoGyro to take care of safety, below I will present some design facts so that ARGON will keep passengers safe when a human fails. So why is ARGON the safest Gyroplanes in our opinion?Most Gyroplanes are built around a metal chassis frame (Magni, AutoGyro) to which everything else is mounted, just like cars of yesteryear. ARGON is different. Using the latest carbon fiber technology, ARGON's cabin is built around a lightweight but extremely strong monocoque protective shell, like that of a Formula 1 car with a structurally integrated safety cage in the form of an internal exoskeleton. This intricate structure provides both an impact- and crush-resistant protective enclosure for the crew and allows all other components to be mounted directly, without the weight of a chassis or additional structural frame. The monocoque is so durable that, like the Koenigseg, it protects the fuel tanks. This provides a tremendous degree of safety for the crew in the event of any accident, as the cabin can withstand loads many times greater than gravitational acceleration. The monocoque fuselage design means that forces are transmitted through the fuselage, rather than through the frame rods and tubes. ARGON is one of the few Gyroplanes in the world that uses a monocoque design, and is now available in a carbon fiber version that offers unmatched strength and low weight for safety and performance.

The width of the landing gear also has a not inconsiderable effect on maintaining stability during landing and takeoff. The ARGON 915 Classic, our standard model, has a wheelbase of 85', providing much greater stability, especially when taking off and landing on grass or uneven fields. Landings on grass, uneven and rough runway fields pose much less risk for the wide wheelbase.

ARGON's carbon-kevlar composite High Inertia rotor provides RPM stability during flight and maneuvering, eliminating the risk of rapid RPM loss and Blade Flapping effects.

ARGON has more than twice the ground clearance of the competition, due to our higher landing gear and dual tail beams designed to keep the contraption stably off the ground during takeoff, landing and taxi. It should be noted that competitors that use a single tail beam that curves under the propeller have very little ground clearance. The tail boom is much lower to the ground than the cabin and can touch the ground if the airfield is not quite level and smooth.

When the entire horizontal stabilizer and tail rudders are mounted on a single curved tube, there are definitely more frequent flater and harmonic vibrations that are harder to control. Two straight tail beams are much stronger and almost free of vibration. What's more, ARGONs have large vertical stabilizers , and dual rudders which greatly improves maneuverability at low speeds during takeoff and landing.

A weakness of early Gyroplanes was the problem of “power push”; engine thrust would tip the Gyro forward and unload the rotor, or lead to pilot-induced oscillations when the pilot retracted the rotor control stick to compensate. Raising the cabin relative to the engine, as some gyro manufacturers have done so that it receives a midline thrust, is a half-measure that produces a tall, clumsy shape.

A better solution is to add a much larger horizontal stabilizer to solve the problem of pushing out power. ARGONs have a much wider ballast to provide maximum stability. Note that the height of this stabilizer is directly aligned with the centerline of the propeller thrust to maximize its effectiveness. This is the best solution on the market.

Gyroplanes' unparalleled flight pleasure is manifested in the unlimited ability to observe the surroundings. ARGONs maximize visibility with a much larger windshield that wraps around the sides, with windows in the front floor, windows in the roof, extended downward visibility in the doors, and even windows behind the doors. Being able to see the runway directly below you, through the windows in the floor, has helped many new pilots to better judge a landing and master the art more quickly. This is an advantage we greatly appreciate. Our partially open back doesn't look as streamlined as the fully enclosed Cavalon. But the open area eliminates the heat buildup problems that Cavalons have.

What we admire at first glance - putting the turbo engine, water coolers and oil cooler, etc., into a small engine compartment - turns out to be a nightmare when we try to reach the components for inspection or service.

Thanks to our design, we can see and inspect all components and systems at a glance before flying which makes Check Before Flight much easier

The ARGON GTL has 25 more cubic feet of luggage space behind the seats than the ARGON Classic and the cabin is wider and larger than our competitors Cavalon and Niki and Magni. When you want to travel you need space for luggage, camping gear, and when you use the Gyro for work space for cargo, scanning equipment or camera gear. Our ARGON models are designed to be more functional, useful and efficient than the competition's two-seat Gyroplanes, which fit two passengers and not much more in the cabin. A wider cabin with more space between the seats is the main comfort advantage of our Gyroplanes.

There is also a padded armrest between the seats. The hidden advantage of this extra space between the seats is that the center instrument tunnel is much wider. This makes it easier to access all the control cables and sensor wires. We've spent hours trying to fix something in Cavalon's small tube tunnel that only takes a minute or two in the wide tunnel of our Gyroplanes.

You may take this information as marketing, but it is factual and tangible.

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