MTO SPORT CLASSIC TAKEOFF DISTANCE

Maksimus

Newbie
Joined
Jun 19, 2022
Messages
29
Location
Germany
Aircraft
MTO SPORT CLASSIC
Total Flight Time
3500
Dear Friends!

After ages of flying on airplanes now im new on Gyro-planes. I need your advises about the MTO Sport Classic with 914 Engine.
My main question is about the take off ground roll distance.
Imagine sea level condition with 30-35 Celsius with take off mass of roughly 450 kg include passenger and 20 liters of fuel. Also lets imagine no wind condition. What would be roughly my take off ground roll? In the POH of MTO sport take off distance called out 100 meters and there is chart about increased distance with pressure alt and temp. But i need real life experiences.
Also during the Pre-Rotation what rpm you use for short field take off?

Best regards
Maks
 
Last edited:

Tyger

Super Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
2,011
Location
Clermont, NY
Aircraft
Magni M16
Total Flight Time
475
I'm a little confused by the question. Does the 450 kg include all passengers and fuel? OR is that before adding a passenger and fuel?
Twenty liters (around 15kg?) is only maybe an hour's worth of fuel.
I am also curious why you are interested just in ground roll.
It's been suggested in some other threads that extra prerotation (above 200 or so) does not appreciably affect total takeoff distance.
 

Maksimus

Newbie
Joined
Jun 19, 2022
Messages
29
Location
Germany
Aircraft
MTO SPORT CLASSIC
Total Flight Time
3500
Hi! 450 kg is my take off weight yes sir. everything included. we ll do only 20-30 minutes of flight though.
I have a short grass field with length of 200 meters sir and when the field ends river starts so no obstacle after airborne . TBH im not sure about the data given in the AFM and need experinced pilots data on this.
Thanks!
 

Tyger

Super Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
2,011
Location
Clermont, NY
Aircraft
Magni M16
Total Flight Time
475
OK that makes more sense. Ordinarily I would think with 200m just to get wheels-up, you would be fine
However, my concerns for you would be the temperature, which is quite high (standard temperature at sea level is 15) and the condition of your grass field. Lots of bumps, or long or wet grass can slow things down quite a lot.
 

Maksimus

Newbie
Joined
Jun 19, 2022
Messages
29
Location
Germany
Aircraft
MTO SPORT CLASSIC
Total Flight Time
3500
OK that makes more sense. Ordinarily I would think with 200m just to get wheels-up, you would be fine
However, my concerns for you would be the temperature, which is quite high (standard temperature at sea level is 15) and the condition of your grass field. Lots of bumps, or long or wet grass can slow things down quite a lot.

Temp is exactly my concern. being at sea level ( 20 ft MSL ) is an advantage for sure.. Also averagely 5 kts of headwind will help a bit! I need enough information before transfer of the gyro to the field and i need to keep researching more. Thanks for your answer Tyger.
 

Tyger

Super Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
2,011
Location
Clermont, NY
Aircraft
Magni M16
Total Flight Time
475
I'll let some MTO pilots weigh in now but, just for some perspective, yesterday I participated in a contest in my Magni where they actually measured my "wheels-up" distance. I had roughly the same weight, also on a grass field, 20ºC, 660 ft elevation, with about 10kts headwind. I was up in 65 meters. That was with a Rotax 912ULS engine, so maybe 15% less takeoff power than your 914 would have.
 
Last edited:

Maksimus

Newbie
Joined
Jun 19, 2022
Messages
29
Location
Germany
Aircraft
MTO SPORT CLASSIC
Total Flight Time
3500
I'll let some MTO pilots weigh in now but, just for some perspective, yesterday I participated in a contest in my Magni where they actually measured my "wheels-up" distance. I had roughly the same weight, also on a grass field, 20ºC, 660 ft elevation, with about 10kts headwind. I was up in 65 meters. That was with a Rotax 912ULS engine, so maybe 15% less takeoff power than your 914 has.
lovely. thanks man for the info i appreciate it.
 

loftus

Super Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Messages
1,173
Location
Ponce Inlet, Florida
Aircraft
Aircam; Previously owned Autogyro MTO
Total Flight Time
800 hours
My only recommendation, is if there is any doubt, try the same or similar on a longer strip elsewhere. Account for aborting takeoff distances in your minimum at least until sure.
Another cardinal before using a grass strip, unless you are very familiar with the strip, is walk the strip first to check it's condition, especially after rain. mark of in your mind planned liftoff point, abort point etc. Closest I ever came to a blade flap was hitting a large pothole on takeoff from an unfamiliar strip.
 

Tyger

Super Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
2,011
Location
Clermont, NY
Aircraft
Magni M16
Total Flight Time
475
Very true about grass runways. Even on one you know well, the ground condition can be quite variable, and it's sometimes hard to spot problem areas unless you look very carefully. Many also have a fair amount of slope to them, and in different directions, which can take some getting used to.
The most uncomfortable takeoff I ever had was from a grass runway with a significant side slope, and fairly long grass, neither of which were too noticeable prior to landing. I am not planning ever to go back there. 🤨
Here is a cautionary tale about taking off in longer grass:
 
Last edited:

jeffh

Newbie
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
14
Location
Oviedo
I did notice that you also note you are new to gyros. Not sure if that means you are actually certified or not. If you are newly certified I'd get an opinion and at least a flight in and out with a CFI
 

Burrengyro

Gold Supporter
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
187
Location
Ireland
Aircraft
ELA07S and Montgomerie Bensen (project)
Total Flight Time
300
I did notice that you also note you are new to gyros. Not sure if that means you are actually certified or not. If you are newly certified I'd get an opinion and at least a flight in and out with a CFI
If you are concerned about the length of your private runway and it's surface condition being suitable for your gyro, I would recommend getting your CFI do a few test takeoffs from this runway with both one and two on board and also in calm warm conditions and in cross wind conditions. Long grass can cause problems. A short runway gives you no margin for error.
 

Abid

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Messages
4,667
Location
Tampa, FL
Aircraft
AR-1
Total Flight Time
4000+ 472 gyroplanes. Sport CFI Gyro and Trikes
Dear Friends!

After ages of flying on airplanes now im new on Gyro-planes. I need your advises about the MTO Sport Classic with 914 Engine.
My main question is about the take off ground roll distance.
Imagine sea level condition with 30-35 Celsius with take off mass of roughly 450 kg include passenger and 20 liters of fuel. Also lets imagine no wind condition. What would be roughly my take off ground roll? In the POH of MTO sport take off distance called out 100 meters and there is chart about increased distance with pressure alt and temp. But i need real life experiences.
Also during the Pre-Rotation what rpm you use for short field take off?

Best regards
Maks

Hi Maks
Why being new to gyroplanes you want to put yourself in that situation. Aren't there any options available where you could get 100 hours in a gyro before you go to this place?
 

Tyger

Super Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
2,011
Location
Clermont, NY
Aircraft
Magni M16
Total Flight Time
475
My impression was that he was trying to make a decision about getting a gyro, given the runway he has available, as opposed to already having/flying a gyro and deciding where to take it...
I think it's a totally legit question. Not everyone asks these questions a priori.
 

Maksimus

Newbie
Joined
Jun 19, 2022
Messages
29
Location
Germany
Aircraft
MTO SPORT CLASSIC
Total Flight Time
3500
My only recommendation, is if there is any doubt, try the same or similar on a longer strip elsewhere. Account for aborting takeoff distances in your minimum at least until sure.
Another cardinal before using a grass strip, unless you are very familiar with the strip, is walk the strip first to check it's condition, especially after rain. mark of in your mind planned liftoff point, abort point etc. Closest I ever came to a blade flap was hitting a large pothole on takeoff from an unfamiliar strip.
Yes it is a golf course in good condition and in use. Sry for your experience sir. That is my only available strip to fly from.
 

Maksimus

Newbie
Joined
Jun 19, 2022
Messages
29
Location
Germany
Aircraft
MTO SPORT CLASSIC
Total Flight Time
3500
I did notice that you also note you are new to gyros. Not sure if that means you are actually certified or not. If you are newly certified I'd get an opinion and at least a flight in and out with a CFI
Yes sir you are correct. I m CFI on airplanes but that does not mean much with gyros. we ll do some flights with a cfi on gyro in the mentioned strip for sure . Thanks for your recommendation sir
 

Maksimus

Newbie
Joined
Jun 19, 2022
Messages
29
Location
Germany
Aircraft
MTO SPORT CLASSIC
Total Flight Time
3500
If you are concerned about the length of your private runway and it's surface condition being suitable for your gyro, I would recommend getting your CFI do a few test takeoffs from this runway with both one and two on board and also in calm warm conditions and in cross wind conditions. Long grass can cause problems. A short runway gives you no margin for error.
Yes you are totally right sir. We ll do that
 

Maksimus

Newbie
Joined
Jun 19, 2022
Messages
29
Location
Germany
Aircraft
MTO SPORT CLASSIC
Total Flight Time
3500
Hi Maks
Why being new to gyroplanes you want to put yourself in that situation. Aren't there any options available where you could get 100 hours in a gyro before you go to this place?
I dont have any other option sadly. Just measured the distance again and it is around 250 meters. Actually i was talking about the worst situation, mostly we have 5-10 kt headwind which will help us alot.
 

Abid

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Messages
4,667
Location
Tampa, FL
Aircraft
AR-1
Total Flight Time
4000+ 472 gyroplanes. Sport CFI Gyro and Trikes
My impression was that he was trying to make a decision about getting a gyro, given the runway he has available, as opposed to already having/flying a gyro and deciding where to take it...
I think it's a totally legit question. Not everyone asks these questions a priori.

I think its the wrong approach. When you are a newbie, I don't care if you have a 915 powered gyro. You are going to screw up technique and will need more runway. This will happen whether its a new trike pilot or airplane pilot also. It takes time to get things in your technique consistent and correct before attempting where there is little margin for screwups.
Basically with 250 meters (820 feet) yes you should be able to break ground if you did everything right. In fact yu can break ground in half that. A 914 engine at the least not a 912ULS is what I'd recommend. One up versus 2 up makes a huge difference as well and runway condition should be maintained. Pre-rotate to 220, pull stick all the way back and smoothly go to full power. Work with your instructor on this project. Put a yellow flag or marker and if you pass that and still on the ground, abort immediately.
 
Last edited:
Top