MTO Sport 2017 stick and body shake; bad!

rac3124

Newbie
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
27
Location
Tampa, FL
My guess something was not put back together properly. Blades on wrong side of hub, etc.
Nope; blades were put back correctly....matching up the serial numbers and everything.
BUT the teeter bolt was recently replaced, and I'm guessing the shim washers for the teeter bolts was not put back in the correct order.
Could that be causing these shakes to happen?
 

rac3124

Newbie
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
27
Location
Tampa, FL
How was it when you flew it on your pre purchase test flight before your decided to buy it ( ie before rotors off for transportation ) - hopefully good and smoothish ?
Original owner didn't allow me to test fly the aircraft, just give a good ground inspection. So, I'm not sure how it flew prior to me flying it after getting it back to it's new home.
 

rac3124

Newbie
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
27
Location
Tampa, FL
If you have to ask the question here it suggests that you don't know anything about vibration analysis. That's nothing to be ashamed it's a pretty specialized field and very few people really know anything about vibration and gyro rotor track and balance.

When I was a young engineer an old timer once told me "if you don't know what you're doing, then don't do it". That would be my advise to you.

If you follow the usual social media advice you'll probably spend a lot of time going around in circles getting nowhere and could even make it worse.

You're lucky to be in Tampa, Greg Spicola was trained to use the PB4 and I think is also based there or go to Abid at Zephyhills, I trained him as well. They should (if they remember the training;)) be able to do a simple 5 minute flight vibration analysis and by looking at the frequency spectrum they'll tell you if the problem is rotor, 1/rev, 2/rev, prop, engine or something else. They can even send me the file if it's unusual.
Good luck.
Mike G
Thanks Mike.
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
16,312
Location
Nipomo,California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2400+ in rotorcraft
If she was my aircraft I would take the teeter bolt out and measure everything.

I had a problem with a teeter bolt that was worn below minimum specifications and outer bushings that were way out of tolerance on an AutoGyro Cavalon causing noticeable play with rotor against the stops.

I found it during pre-flight so I don’t know how she flew.

I would also get the assembly tracked and balanced.
 

Greg Vos

Active Member
Joined
May 26, 2019
Messages
301
Location
Cape Town
Aircraft
R44/22 H269/300 MD 500 Magni (all); Xenon RST; DTA; ELA; MTO
Total Flight Time
2480 odd (1300 gyro hours & counting)
String the blades, it takes a few minutes to take the head assembly off, This is s great place to start and then easy to inspect the teeter bushes and Centre things up prior to re assembly
 

rac3124

Newbie
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
27
Location
Tampa, FL
String the blades, it takes a few minutes to take the head assembly off, This is s great place to start and then easy to inspect the teeter bushes and Centre things up prior to re assembly
And I did just that 3 days ago (stringing the blades). No problem there. Teeter bushings checked out good, and I just installed a new teeter bolt. Thanks.
 

rac3124

Newbie
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
27
Location
Tampa, FL
If she was my aircraft I would take the teeter bolt out and measure everything.

I had a problem with a teeter bolt that was worn below minimum specifications and outer bushings that were way out of tolerance on an AutoGyro Cavalon causing noticeable play with rotor against the stops.

I found it during pre-flight so I don’t know how she flew.

I would also get the assembly tracked and balanced.
Next step is to check the tracking. I believe that's where my problem is. Need to put the little reflectors on the tips to check it out that way.
 

Greg Vos

Active Member
Joined
May 26, 2019
Messages
301
Location
Cape Town
Aircraft
R44/22 H269/300 MD 500 Magni (all); Xenon RST; DTA; ELA; MTO
Total Flight Time
2480 odd (1300 gyro hours & counting)
When you had it off for string did you weigh them? It could be a tip weight that has shifted?
please let us know when you find the cause, I’m very interested to know
 

rac3124

Newbie
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
27
Location
Tampa, FL
When you had it off for string did you weigh them? It could be a tip weight that has shifted?
please let us know when you find the cause, I’m very interested to know
No, I did not weight them. I'll keep you posted if and when we find the fix.
 

Grodou

Junior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Messages
59
Location
Ans, Belgium
Aircraft
MTO Sport and Calidus, club owned.
Total Flight Time
Not much !
Experienced vigorous body shake once with good old MTO... felt like taking a ride on a wash machine...
was not related to rotor but happening consistently and under control with lesser air speed... Rudder cables were a bit lose and causing unvoluntary but swinging.
 

rac3124

Newbie
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
27
Location
Tampa, FL
Got it all worked out! Stringing was good; balance was good; but had to add 0.006 shim under one side of teeter block. Pretty smooth now.....as gyros go. Thank you for everyone's input. Fly safe :)
 

XXavier

Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
1,206
Location
Madrid, Spain
Aircraft
ELA R-100 and Magni M24 autogyros
Total Flight Time
628 gyro (Sept. 2020)
It's good news that your gyro is now flying smooth...
May I ask how did you arrived to the solution of adding that 0.006" shim at a precise place under the teeter block?
By trial and error...?
 

Resasi

Gold Supporter
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
7,794
Location
London/ Kilifi Kenya
Aircraft
Gyrs, RAF 2000/Mgni/Bnsn/Hrnet/Mrlin/Crckt/MT-03/Lyzlle AV18-A/Prdtor. Pax ArrowCopter
Total Flight Time
100+ gyro, 16,000+ other
Glad to here you got the problem sorted.

Abid is a very helpful person, good people indeed.
 

Bob Gregory

Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2005
Messages
129
Location
Springfield, MO
Greetings fellow Rotary Wing pilots. Need to pick your brain on an issue I'm having with my MTO Sport 2017:
When I'm flying, regardless of by myself or with passenger, when my rotor reaches around 380 or higher RPMs the entire body shakes and gets worse as the RPMs increase. Same goes for the stick shake but that starts getting real bad at 400 RPMs.
I've seen YouTube videos of other MTOs and gyros flying very smooth with little to no body and/or stick shake about them.
Can someone offer up some suggestions for a fix PLEASE?!
Much thanks,
Randy
This may have nothing to do with your problem. When I heard the rotors clicking when winding down. Made c[orox bottle washers to fit on each side of blade ( four to six washers). Smoothest and quietest flight had ever made. But blades were "sticky", too much friction, so removed a couple. Flew so much smoother.
 

rac3124

Newbie
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
27
Location
Tampa, FL
This may have nothing to do with your problem. When I heard the rotors clicking when winding down. Made c[orox bottle washers to fit on each side of blade ( four to six washers). Smoothest and quietest flight had ever made. But blades were "sticky", too much friction, so removed a couple. Flew so much smoother.
Not sure what your saying, but i'm interested to hear more. Please explain further either via phone or email. Thanks, Randy
 

XXavier

Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Messages
1,206
Location
Madrid, Spain
Aircraft
ELA R-100 and Magni M24 autogyros
Total Flight Time
628 gyro (Sept. 2020)
This may have nothing to do with your problem. When I heard the rotors clicking when winding down. Made c[orox bottle washers to fit on each side of blade ( four to six washers). Smoothest and quietest flight had ever made. But blades were "sticky", too much friction, so removed a couple. Flew so much smoother.
Interesting. My blades click quite loudly when winding down. I asked the manufacturer (Averso/Planet Gyro) and they answered that it was normal and harmless...
 
Top