"Mishka" from Russia

JonSu

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Good day, friends.
Here are some of the design details for a tailwheel gyroplane:
1. The plane of rotation of the rotor during preliminary spinning must be horizontal, otherwise there is a danger of waving the blades in the presence of wind.
2. I think the control stick needs a special stop mechanism in its forward position. It will help when taxiing with a rotating rotor.
3. The extension of the main landing gear can be larger than for an aircraft (see my post above) but within reasonable limits. Because a situation with an interrupted takeoff run is possible.
If anyone complements this, I would be glad.
Sincerely.
 

Welder

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Hello. I am here to learn. I liked the previous designs. Would you please share your views on the main problems with this design? I am a little unclear. Thanks.
DennisFetters? Who is this guy, makes a snarky little comment, trying to cast doubt? when questioned, no response.
My knee jerk reaction is to say he wouldn't make a pimple on JonSu's ass.
 

JonSu

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I think the problems of a pushing gyroplane are much deeper than the classic tractor autogyro.
Ron Heron can confirm this....:)
 

skyguynca

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DennisFetters? Who is this guy, makes a snarky little comment, trying to cast doubt? when questioned, no response.
My knee jerk reaction is to say he wouldn't make a pimple on JonSu's ass.
Well he designed and sold Air Command gyros for years. Now he works consulting and design manufacturing for drone helicopters all over the world.

He may not be commenting because he is unavailable or did not see the post.

He is a very knowledgeable guy about all things rotorcraft. It is how he makes a living.

Saying the pimple comment by the way was wrong since you do not know either guy, their experience or education.
 

All_In

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Not sure over 10,000+ logged FW, 260+ ultralights, sailplane, hang-gliders
DennisFetters? Who is this guy, makes a snarky little comment, trying to cast doubt? when questioned, no response.
My knee jerk reaction is to say he wouldn't make a pimple on JonSu's ass.
Dennis has proven he can do all 4 basic business required fields needed to produce a rotorcraft.
He designed, engineered, built the kits, and marketed The Air Command, Commander which IIRC was introduced in 1984 as an Ultralight Vehicle category. He came after the pioneers Benson, Commander Wallis, and Ken Brock gyroplanes. It looked more modern and he increased the popularity with his marketing.
After that, he created the troubled, Revolution Helicopter Corporation and the Mini-500 single-seat helicopter kit, so-called because the fuselage superficially resembled the MD-500 a five-place turbine-powered helicopter IIRC.

That is what he has done for our community that proves he knows rotorcraft, design, engineering, and building them.

It is hard to tell who is who in the Zoo, so I hope this helps to clarify as it is confusing to know who are real experts on here. Which excludes me as an expert, in some areas.
 
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DennisFetters

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DennisFetters? Who is this guy, makes a snarky little comment, trying to cast doubt? when questioned, no response.
My knee jerk reaction is to say he wouldn't make a pimple on JonSu's ass.

Sorry I have not replied. I am presently in Egypt, and I have been involved in business discussions with a different branch of the Egyptian Ministry of Defence every day for the last week talking to them about my drone developments. Before that, I was in Abu Dhabi, so I have not had much time to post in length here.

Who am I? I am a life-long aviation enthusiast age 65 (but pretend to be 35), a Commercial rated Helicopter/Gyroplane pilot with over 5000 hours accumulated as pilot-in-command. I am a father of a wonderful 5.5-year-old daughter named Shenandoah who already speaks 3 languages (you can play a lot of good tunes on an old fiddle) and the last half my life I have lived and worked around the world, presently residing in Dayton Ohio for the last 2 years.

Importantly, I am a patriotic American that voted for Trump.

You can learn more about me on my website; www.fettersaerospace.com

Also, my YouTube channel; https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEbwhJwxZ4Nfh1E5YW7DQZQ?view_as=subscriber

And my LinkedIn profile at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dennis-fetters-3654911b/

That should get you started to see if I am now rated a little higher than a pimple of someone's ass.

My advice is sound. There is nothing new under the sun in aviation. It has all been done before in one form or another. There are flaws in the tractor gyroplane design that has solutions that were discovered and remedied by the greats of that era. Before you design anything, search history and learn from their errors and solutions.

It is well documented what the problems are with tractor autogyros and the solution that made them as good as they could ever get. I don't have to spend my time here explaining when you can do the research yourself.

You are welcome.
 
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JonSu

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tell us , what problems ?
Sorry friends.
Maybe I put it wrong - not problems, but peculiarities.
When designing push gyroplanes, you must know them. Such as:
1. Problems with engine cooling at low level flight speeds when maximum power is required.
2. Harmful effect on heading and pitch stability of a convex, closed cockpit.
3. Obligatory solution of problems with pitch stability against somersault, installation of a developed horizontal tail and location of the center of mass as close as possible to the propeller thrust vector.
4. Insufficient resistance to rollover of the three-wheel chassis when driving on the ground.
Do not take it for moralizing.
I just share my thoughts.
Sincerely.
 

JonSu

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It is well documented what the problems are with tractor autogyros and the solution that made them as good as they could ever get.
DennisFetters
I respect people like you.
Please share your rich experience.
Tell us about the features of the autogyro of the tractor, which are revealed by the history of its creation and which must be taken into account when designing.
We lack this knowledge.

I would be very grateful.
Sincerely.
 

C. Beaty

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... most of the time we are under lock down, and when we can go aout we risk of being beheaded !!!
Convert to Islam and honor the Prophet; keep your head. In a sense, the French brought this on themselves by trying to civilize the Arabs of North Africa.
There was huge contrast between the French colonies of North Africa and the Italian colony of Libya; the French poured tons of money into building infrastructure; the Italians didn't spend a penny. At the end of WWII, the British kicked the Italians out of Libya; the French stayed in their colonies and continued to pour money down a rat-hole. When the French finally got tired of fighting rebellions and withdrew from North Africa, they felt obligated to protect the Arabs who had assisted them against the rebellions so allowed them to immigrate to France. Now 10% of the population of France are Muslims.
 

JonSu

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are you building a taill dragger ?
Thanks for the detailed answer, jm-urbani.
Resistance to rollover on the ground is provided by a low center of gravity and chassis with one wheel in the rear and two main legs in front.
Therefore I prefer the tail wheel chassis for the tractor autogyro.
And which scheme is better for pushing or pulling is a matter of personal preference and faith.
Each has its own subtleties that have to be taken into account when designing an autogyro for specific tasks.
Sincerely.
 

Welder

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Wow, sorry for the Pimple comment, but it sure created a truthful conversation between parties, some more pointed than others 😂
Mr. Fetters I apologize for my comment.
Would you be willing to comment on JonSu’s designs?
I want to build his ultra lite design the SkyRotor.
I wish you good luck with your Drone business.
Ben Lane
 
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DennisFetters

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I don't owe you anything. I was kind enough to bring to your attention that you will experience problems. I said study your history. It's all there for you to learn. I Am not your teacher, only an adviser. You not only have the ability to study and research on your own but should do so on your own to improve your overall knowledge about these issues. You retain knowledge better from homework than sitting in a class from someone explaining it to you. You do not have to repeat historical costly mistakes.

I tell you what. You study, learn, come back here and tell me what you think I'm talking about, and I'll tell you if you got it or not. I'll be watching.
 

JonSu

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I've been interested in gyroplanes since about 2002.
This was a new direction for me.
I began to study all the available information in this area, since I work as a design engineer.
My favorite direction is aircraft construction.
And what amazed me.
There are many misconceptions and obvious mistakes when designing gyroplanes.
For example, the dispute about the need for horizontal tail on the gyroplane, which is still ongoing.
The history of the RAF company is indicative.
The RF-2000 was a beautiful but also dangerous device.
At RAF-2000, not only newcomers, but also experienced instructor pilots died.
Among them was my friend, who mastered this apparatus perfectly and taught others to fly.
The designers of the company did not heed the advice to install on it a horizontal tail, already tested in flight.
I'm not talking about lifting the cockpit up to align the center of mass and the propeller thrust line.
Result.
A well-made, but dangerous design is a thing of the past along with the company.
I think the point is that helicopter and aircraft construction specialists do not design gyroplanes. I think they consider them a past stage of evolution. :)
Ignorance of the basics of aerodynamics and flight dynamics of rotorcraft plus the lack of the possibility of blowing in a wind tunnel are a source of blind copying of more or less flying vehicles and their design features.
Little critical thinking.
Therefore, the not particularly advantageous blade profile 8-H-12 "reigns" in the designs of even new blades. :)
And many creators of the "wrong" devices consider themselves "gurus" because they have done business and sold many devices and their sets.
Please do not be offended.
Only open dialogue, communication, critical reflection, and not silence, honest stories about unsuccessful design and layout solutions will help save many lives.
This is my personal conviction and credo ...
Yours faithfully...
 

Welder

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I don't owe you anything. I was kind enough to bring to your attention that you will experience problems. I said study your history. It's all there for you to learn. I Am not your teacher, only an adviser. You not only have the ability to study and research on your own but should do so on your own to improve your overall knowledge about these issues. You retain knowledge better from homework than sitting in a class from someone explaining it to you. You do not have to repeat historical costly mistakes.

I tell you what. You study, learn, come back here and tell me what you think I'm talking about, and I'll tell you if you got it or not. I'll be watching.
What a big bunch of bullshit
 

DennisFetters

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What a big bunch of bullshit
Maybe in the future, you can respond to someone more like an adult rather than lashing out at them right off with insults. It might entice people to be more helpful.
 

skyguynca

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What a big bunch of bullshit
Welder, that is being a bit harsh. I ask for advice from time to time from the more experienced people on here. Sometimes they help sometimes they just steer me in the right direction. In this sport, it does require you to learn things, especially if you are going to build and fly. It will make you a more knowledgeable builder, and a better pilot to learn then create.
 

DennisFetters

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Jm-Urbani,

It seems like you are attempting to discredit my accomplishments from a very successful decade where I developed and sold the Air Command gyroplanes, where in the 1980s we sold 97% of all gyroplanes being built in the world at the time, plus provided the largest infusion of gyroplanes ever in that decade.

However, before you post partial information that tries to make your one-sided slam work on an unrelated thread, you should make sure the other side can't counter with the total facts which discredit you. As you can see below, CLT had nothing to do with the accidents It was purely pilot errors and nearly a total lack of training.

My apologies for cluttering up this thread with unrelated information to defind against his alligations.
 

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JonSu

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With pleasure.
The information was received from the pilot who flew the "Mishka" gyroplane.
Positive:
1. Stable in flight (changing the stabilizer angles does not greatly affect the balance).
2. Well controlled in flight.
3. General summary from the pilot - nicely piloted without a passenger.
Negative:
1. Low steering stability when taxiing at low speeds at the beginning of the take-off run (the effect of a large front wheel offset and a fairly short fuselage) - you have to work with pedals. I think it would be useful to slightly reduce the front landing gear offset.
2. Small chord of the main rotor blade (DW) for maximum flight weight. I think you need at least 200mm or three blades.
3. Low rate of climb at maximum flight weight (Rotax 912 - 80 hp). I think 100 hp and more - it would be better.
We did not fly with a strong crosswind, but for any gyroplane it is better to take off, and especially it is safer to land strictly against the wind ...
 

JonSu

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No There is no brake differentiation.
The rear wheel is pedal controlled. I consider this a must with a short chassis base.
15052011231.jpg
The design of the rotor head allows the plane of rotation of the rotor to be horizontal when parked, with the control stick forward.
When the control stick is even more forward, the rotor brake is applied.
15052011218.jpg
And this is me :)
P1040315.JPG
And this is me at that time :)
 
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