MILLS GREGORY Air Commander N962GT

[ckurz7000]

Just read the thread through from beginning to end in one sitting. As I read it, Steve wants to clarify the circumstances of the accident/incident and asks good questions. He then receives "answers" from folks who haven't been there either: something along the line that beaches in that area are miles long and you can always find deserted patches to land a gyro legally. Steve is confused between this statement and a photo which shows a group of people in beach attire near the gyro. He also got some information about the accident's location from a member of the reporting TV station.

At this point, Greg hadn't posted anything about the mishap to shed some light on it. At least, if he did, his posts were deleted and I couldn't read them. I am speculating here, but if he had posted where exactly it happened and why, everything would have been cool and dandy. Even if he had said something along the lines of, "The public information is misleading but at this time I don't want to post anything further.", it would have gone a long way toward keeping the discussion civil and to the point.

Steve is someone keenly interested in documenting facts as accurately as possible -- just as historians are supposed to do. He relied on sources available to him (photos and location information) and asked several times for clarifying statements. He disclosed each source of information. On the other hand we have general statements about beaches in the greater area and a lot of sentiments and unhelpful comments from some other participants of the discussion.

Then there is the issue of registration. Steve found a discrepancy in that the registration of Greg's gyro was cited as "expired" on the FAA website, yet the mishap occurred afterwards. I found the ensuing discussion very helpful and I bet so did several other forum members. It clarified an important issue which might put some other pilots in danger of breaking the law and unknowingly losing their insurance coverage.

To my understanding, Steve is genuinly motivated by gathering and documenting aviation related data. I am convinced that he has no hidden agenda or axes to grind. And I hope that he is going to continue doing it.

-- Chris.

 

[GyrOZprey]

HOW do you retrieve ......

HOW do you retrieve ......

a disabled gyro FROM A SANDBAR????? - NO ROADS, - surrounded by water & swampland .... per Greg's pic of the REAL landing/accident site!

HOW ARE FOLKS HERE STILL CONFUSING Steve's pic of the BEACH near the houses ... with the sandbar out in the water????? I'm mystified! :noidea:

Greg clearly stated below - "I provided the NTSB and the boat captain who retrieved me and my gyro with the GPS coordinates and an iPhone screen shot while I was standing next to my poor, disabled gyro"

The TV/ news report picture of "rubbernecking" people on the SANDBAR .... came off the boats in the area - seems logical - to me!!!

For the record, in order to straighten out the misinformation, intentional harm, outright lies and the rest of the bull$#!t that this ASSHOLE (and the rest of his bottom-feeding buddies on here) from the UK wants to keep posting .....

......I provided the NTSB and the boat captain who retrieved me and my gyro with the GPS coordinates and an iPhone screen shot while I was standing next to my poor, disabled gyro.

....... the photo you posted is 2 kilometers away from where I landed! You ain't even CLOSE. I put it in kilometers because I figure you are too goddam stupid to convert from miles.

I'm reluctant to add any more fuel -to-this :flame: ... but I feel & sorry for Greg ... and WE have had OUR own run-in's WITH HIM & his attitude / mouth - over the years! :whip:

He certainly has personality challenges more that the average abrasive "gyro-joe" - I just feel a bit more compassion for his predicament is needed here!

That said ... GOOD points HAVE come out of this ... regarding keeping an eye on the registration currency of your aircraft & the FAR's ... that are forgotten ... by many "week-end warrior sport-pilots" who just go sport around!

... and being a little smarter about the limitations of intentionally landing your gyro on off-field surfaces!! :sorry:

 

[GyroRon]

Wow, if you could get it any more screwed up than that you'd have to be Steve_UK. And I have to agree, his avatar is really tired.

"In Steve's defense"...are you frikkin kiddin' me? He posted outright lies on here in his assault on me with every intention to defame, slander and libel and you have done nothing to curb it. Quite the opposite, here you come "in Steve's defense".

Really. I mean, really?

Cowboys like me have a saying for people like you: F*** you, and F*** the horse you rode in on.

As to the expired registration: You have joined Steve_UK as self-appointed judge, jury and executioner. I already told you in private that there is an ongoing NTSB investigation and asked that you and the RWF put a muzzle on this thing until that is completed.

So what do you do? Not only do you continue to allow the lies to go unbridled, you actually speak out in "Steve's defense" AND come heaping on your own libelous turdballs.

There is a perfectly good and sound legal issue I have discussed with an aviation attorney concerning the expired registration which I am pursuing, and I won't know how successful my defense is until the day comes when the FAA comes calling. Until then the jury is still out. And you ain't the jury. I was lead by the FAA registration office to believe I could fly the aircraft legally, and that's all you or anyone else needs to know here. You absolutely have no room to decide whether or not I should've been flying or not, it is far from being your call to make.

And what's this BS with "another accident"!?!? Pray tell, when was my FIRST "accident", Ron? Are you aware that there is a distinct difference between a rollover that is not reportable, an "incident", and an "accident"? There is no previous "accident" on my record, butthead. Further, I am appealing the decision that this event be documented as an "accident", and the decision is far from final as of today.

So STFU up, since you can't seem to get your facts straight, post the truth, or so much as side with that which is truth and good old common sense.

As you have done nothing to correct the lies, and now even heap on more misinformation and misleading BS, you are no better than Steve_UK.

Good for you, Ron. You go on then, "in Steve's defense".

To use your own term you once used, to call me: ASSHOLE. In your case, you had suffered NO personal injury on my account. In this case, not only have you come in defense of those who have personally injured me, you have once again come to heap personal injury upon me with no reason nor cause of your own.

RWF needs to shut this crap down. And Ron AWAD needs to stick his head in a toilet.

Been out of town for a few days and have not checked into the forum since my last post in this thread. Want to expand and elaborate on a few things.

1. MY life does not revolve around this forum anymore. I do not check on it daily and I do not read all threads when I do.

2. In my opinion Steve never slandered you. He ASKED you questions, repeatedly, as to where exactly you had your incident or accident or whatever the hell you want to call it.

3. Call things whatever you want, but when you destroy a set of blades and a machine ends up on its side, to me, thats a accident. May not be what the FAA or NTSB considers a accident, but to me, thats a accident. If your driving home from the grocery store in your Dodge durango and lose concentration for a moment and run off the side of the road and into a tree and crush up the front end of your truck... But you pop out of the truck without a scratch on you, and your able to drive the truck home still, is that not still a accident? Seems to me it is. So as far as I can remember, I seem to remember you rolled a gyrobee over.... and you had a hard engine out landing or something along those lines in a aircommand tandem and damaged both machines pretty good. Now this beach / sandbar incident or accident or whatever you want to call it. That is 3 times you've tore up a gyro Greg.

4. You need to learn to control your emotions Greg. You come off as a 13 year old child on the forum in times like this, with the words you choose to use, the deleted posts, the overall tone of your posts etc... Honestly, I don't think anyone here gives two ****s about any of this stuff. People just want to know the facts and learn from them, then move on.

5. Last thing I will say Greg, is you ought to watch your mouth ( or fingers on the keyboard ) Unlike some of the people here that live in far off places, you and I are close enough that you and I WILL be at the same place event in the future... Such as Bensen Days or Barry Days etc... And I will expect if your man enough to throw a bunch of F me's and your a Asshole's and so on at me on the keyboard, that you will be man enough to do it in person. I don't think you will. Nuff said bout that...


Reality is Greg, I don't think I like you. I used to, back before you got involved with making and selling yamaha parts. But since then a whole evil dark side of you has come out through your postings here. Maybe I see it more so than others, since as a moderator I can easily click on and read all your deleted postings, some of which were super nasty and evil. You call yourself a cowboy... And maybe that is what you are in your own eyes. But what I see, is someone here as a business man, trying to sell a product, and also a PRA board member... And I can not speak for anyone else but I would never invest into a product or a organization with leadership or ownership that carries on like you do Greg. I don't like the immaturity of your posts. I don't like the constant deletion of your posts either, I feel like a man of your age and status should be mature enough and take his time to post what he needs to and be able to stand by what he posts without deletions or editing out bits and pieces of it.

 

[cgmg]

Well said, Ron!

I'm one of the people who miss your presence here. It's been a pleasure watching you mature as a moderator over the years.

 

[All_In]

I have no respect for Greg's rants!
But I did learn form this thread about the new registration laws and you cannot fly with the pink copy and hard title card as you can when you buy a new aircraft.

I did learn from Greg and other who PM'ed me that the Air Command landing gear has problems taking off in soft sand.

I used to take Steve's post as facts and the following post taught me to never trust him again as he does no real fact checking and does not understand what a sandbar is and that he did not ask any questions of Greg in the following post only decided on his own using his imagination where Greg landed and made me believe that it was a true statement.

Stan it troubles me that you think that I think that.

It troubles me that people mention a film crew but there is no film report - there is a still image report.

It troubles me that nobody thinks to mention the people on the beach mind having a relaxing time until a gyro lands alongside.

It troubles me that pilots might think they own the entire planet surface.

This is a good game - I've been sent the following from a RWF member,



"they received a call that a gyrocopter had crashed on a sandbar near Little Tybee. a witnesses told them a man landed a gyrocopter on the sandbar off 19th Street, then got into a boat and left.""


We now have location a location - near 19th Street Little Tybee

Here's a sat image of the 19th street area - ask yourself is it remote, isolated and deserted......

As ever clarity welcomed.

Notice that Steve was told TWICE in the above quote that it was a sandbar yet the picture Steve posted it not the sandbar but a picture of a crowded beach he did not check his facts he did not ask in the above quote Greg where it happened before he posted his imagination. He turned it into an accusations when he asked portions in red including ="is this a remote, isolated and deserted..." No Steve but you did not listen to the facts told to you that it was on the sandbar and not the crowded beach that you falsely accused him of landing on.

Now notice that Greg's picture of the actual landing zone is a SANDBAR hard to get to without a boat making a crowded beach almost impossible and Steve could have just asked instead of accusing Greg of endangering people on a crowed beach.
Steve's post here is an accusations not a question and none of us should believe much of what he shares anymore than any other reporter!!! Sadly I learned that too about Steve.

PS:
I also learned that some people cannot understand pictures and the written words above while they accuse me of not understanding!

 

[GyroRon]

Well said, Ron!

I'm one of the people who miss your presence here. It's been a pleasure watching you mature as a moderator over the years.

Thank you very much!

 

[StanFoster]

I have all but disappeared and my comment probably won't mean much to anyone here, but life is too short getting all lathered up ....and I am talking to both sides of this mess. I guess that will put me as being unpopular amongst everyone here.

We all make mistakes, we all learn from others mistakes. I just think its too bad that such a unique flying machine as a gyro can bring out the worst of both sides.

My new life amongst gun shooters is so.... p-e-a-c-e-f-u-l.....and we are competing against each other, with deadly weapons, then going out for a friendly meal afterwards. Haven't heard si much as a snide remark in 2 years now.

There is still a good concentrate on friendly people in the gyro community, but you have to get through the feeding frenzy of sharks to find them at the core.

Ok, I crawled out of the woodwork to say my piece, back into my hole and out the other side where it is refreshingly peaceful!

Stan

 

[JEFF TIPTON]

Always good to hear from you Stan!

 

[JAL]

I have no respect for Greg's rants!
But I did learn form this thread about the new registration laws and you cannot fly with the pink copy and hard title card as you can when you buy a new aircraft.

I did learn from Greg and other who PM'ed me that the Air Command landing gear has problems taking off in soft sand.

I used to take Steve's post as facts and the following post taught me to never trust him again as he does no real fact checking and does not understand what a sandbar is and that he did not ask any questions of Greg in the following post only decided on his own using his imagination where Greg landed and made me believe that it was a true statement.



Notice that Steve was told TWICE in the above quote that it was a sandbar yet the picture Steve posted it not the sandbar but a picture of a crowded beach he did not check his facts he did not ask in the above quote Greg where it happened before he posted his imagination. He turned it into an accusations when he asked portions in red including ="is this a remote, isolated and deserted..." No Steve but you did not listen to the facts told to you that it was on the sandbar and not the crowded beach that you falsely accused him of landing on.

Now notice that Greg's picture of the actual landing zone is a SANDBAR hard to get to without a boat making a crowded beach almost impossible and Steve could have just asked instead of accusing Greg of endangering people on a crowed beach.
Steve's post here is an accusations not a question and none of us should believe much of what he shares anymore than any other reporter!!! Sadly I learned that too about Steve.

PS:
I also learned that some people cannot understand pictures and the written words above while they accuse me of not understanding!

John I think you overlooked the photo of the crashed gyro. There were many onlookers around the gyro so clearly there were people nearby and it looks to be a different location to the isolated sandbar in the river mouth that Greg showed.

That's not to say that when the gyro landed it was unsafe, it just says to me that he didn't land on some isolated sandbar like he claims but instead close enough to people that that they could walk up and check out the broken gyro.

I am not sure why all the hate, Steve hasn't stated anything other than facts and any conjecture was clearly stated. The facts are simple and verifiable:

1) The gyro crashed on a beach
2) Photographic evidence clearly shows the crash site was on a beach where there were people nearby
3) According to the FAA the gyro was unregistered at the time of the accident

Now Greg response could have been real simple:

1) yes I tipped my gyro over while carrying out beach operations
2) Yes there were people nearby but I landed a safe distance away from them.
3) I found out that the geometry air command front wheel set-up is not conducive to sand and would recommend that others look at changing their set-up if they want to operate on soft ground.
4) I believe my gyro was registered as I had paid my fees and had the pink slip so it might be an FAA mistake not mine.

I think it's good that someone like Steve finds it interesting enough to collect accident information and statistics, I know a lot of people can't see it but it is one of the best sources of unbiased information you can get if you want know facts on the safe operation of gyros and how to make it safer for yourself.

It is confronting that there is someone out there ferreting out information that most of us would like to ignore or not be found out if it affects you directly. But as Greg just found out you can't hide from this stuff you just have to own it.

I am sure Greg would have much preferred to have quietly removed the gyro and not say anything to anyone as the cause was not a result of some major problem with the Air Command that needs to be disseminated to other owners for their safety. No harm would come from burying what is just really a minor (although expensive) mishap that could happen and will happen to a lot of others pilots.

But we live in a digital world and there was probably a photo posted online and picked up by the news sites before he even walked off the beach. So you know you have to report the accident otherwise the FAA may find out about from a third party and then suddenly you have more than just broken gyro to worry about but also breaking federal laws as well. Of course the FAA post it on their website and then anyone who has an interest will find out about it.

Here in Australia you need to get an endorsement from ASRA to land on a beach. You also need separate endorsements to take a passenger, fly higher than 500 feet, operate a radio and fly cross country.

 

[All_In]

John I think you overlooked the photo of the crashed gyro. There were many onlookers around the gyro so clearly there were people nearby and it looks to be a different location to the isolated sandbar in the river mouth that Greg showed.

That's not to say that when the gyro landed it was unsafe, it just says to me that he didn't land on some isolated sandbar like he claims but instead close enough to people that that they could walk up and check out the broken gyro.

I am not sure why all the hate, Steve hasn't stated anything other than facts and any conjecture was clearly stated. The facts are simple and verifiable:

1) The gyro crashed on a beach
2) Photographic evidence clearly shows the crash site was on a beach where there were people nearby
3) According to the FAA the gyro was unregistered at the time of the accident

Now Greg response could have been real simple:

1) yes I tipped my gyro over while carrying out beach operations
2) Yes there were people nearby but I landed a safe distance away from them.
3) I found out that the geometry air command front wheel set-up is not conducive to sand and would recommend that others look at changing their set-up if they want to operate on soft ground.
4) I believe my gyro was registered as I had paid my fees and had the pink slip so it might be an FAA mistake not mine.

I think it's good that someone like Steve finds it interesting enough to collect accident information and statistics, I know a lot of people can't see it but it is one of the best sources of unbiased information you can get if you want know facts on the safe operation of gyros and how to make it safer for yourself.

It is confronting that there is someone out there ferreting out information that most of us would like to ignore or not be found out if it affects you directly. But as Greg just found out you can't hide from this stuff you just have to own it.

I am sure Greg would have much preferred to have quietly removed the gyro and not say anything to anyone as the cause was not a result of some major problem with the Air Command that needs to be disseminated to other owners for their safety. No harm would come from burying what is just really a minor (although expensive) mishap that could happen and will happen to a lot of others pilots.

But we live in a digital world and there was probably a photo posted online and picked up by the news sites before he even walked off the beach. So you know you have to report the accident otherwise the FAA may find out about from a third party and then suddenly you have more than just broken gyro to worry about but also breaking federal laws as well. Of course the FAA post it on their website and then anyone who has an interest will find out about it.

Here in Australia you need to get an endorsement from ASRA to land on a beach. You also need separate endorsements to take a passenger, fly higher than 500 feet, operate a radio and fly cross country.

Hi JAL
The photo was taken after the gyro was moved from the crash site on the sandbar where Greg and the witness told Steve it happen to the Beach where there were roads near by so he could tow it home. It was moved by a floating dock as we saw those pictures too as there are no roads to the sandbar and you can only get there by boat or air.

 

[Vance]

Please just let the thread die.

Please just let the thread die.

Hi JAL
The photo was taken after the gyro was moved from the crash site on the sandbar where Greg and the witness told Steve it happen to the Beach where there were roads near by so he could tow it home. It was moved by a floating dock as we saw those pictures too as there are no roads to the sandbar and you can only get there by boat or air.

The picture I see shows an area I could walk from the beach near the town out to the sand bar and the site of the minor rollover.

The information I can find suggests there is a four foot tide where the picture was taken and I don’t know what level the tide was when the Google picture was taken.

Steve was speculating as to the location based on information he quoted. I don’t know why anyone thinks it is important he was wrong. The way I read his words he did not state it as fact.

According to Greg it was a minor rollover on takeoff rather than a landing mishap. Should we condemn the people who have referred to it as a landing accident?

It appears to me Greg’s drama is communicable.

Please just let the thread die.

No one is likely to change their minds with pretend logic and mind reading.

 

[500e]

My feeling is we all make mistakes & feeling foolish is something I have done on numerous occasions
But the reply was way our of line & would worry me if I had any dealings with the person involved, he could have put Steve right, or as said I will explain when calmer.
Personally Gyroron has a much calmer attitude than a lot of the posts here, I also think that Steve's " It troubles me that nobody thinks to mention the people on the beach mind having a relaxing time until a gyro lands alongside.
It troubles me that pilots might think they own the entire planet surface."
Were not to sensible in retrospect.

 

[Resasi]

As has often happened the thread has become polarising and heated. That said various good points have been brought up and discussed.

Accidents for some are to be hidden, others serve a valuable purpose. They inevitable attract conjecture, incorrect assumptions, criticism both justified and unjustified.

They are unfortunately a fact of life and we all experience them in varying degrees of severity and consequence.

I have learned things from this thread, and feel that if I can use this to avoid possible problems in the future, then it has been of some value to me.

This Forum, various posters, experiences of others, advice, example, and misfortunes, has been a major asset to me personally and my experience with gyros, and if sometimes it has occasionally required dealing with some heated posts, clashing personalities, and conflict, that’s life.

 

[SandL]

Forum rules

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

The owners of Rotary Wing Forum reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.

GM disobeyed the forum rules as did one or two others, (Fact)
It brings the gyro world into disrepute and exposed certain peoples agressive character. I believe most pilots using the forum are calm in a crisis, with a balanced view, who are able to show good positive airmanship in the air and on the ground. I am not keen on sharing airspace with those who have little self control. From a safety point of view GM, it may be best if you stay on the ground until your anger subsides.
If I were to cut up the agressive ones by accident in a circuit I fear I may receive agressive threats. (Opinion)
by the way slander is verbal and libel is written (Fact)

 

[Resasi]

Good point well made.

 

[ultracruiser41]

"Hear, Hear" !

 

[SideKick]

I just read this thread from start to finish. I was very interesting to say the least. I seem to agree with a lot that was said on both sides.
I am glad that Greg is alright and that his Gyro can be repaired. I would not say anything negative about someone who makes a mistake and has a rollover as I know how it feels.
Three years ago I made a mistake and rolled over my Air Command. Since it was an ultrlight I did not have to report it, but since I thought that reporting how and why it happened on the forum, it might help someone else from having the same mishap in the future.
I reported it on here and most members were very supportive. Only one member who read it got on here and busted me good and called me all kinds of stupid and an idiot, maybe and asswhole or two and just really let me have it.
Guess who that was. (Greg Mills)
It hurts a little when the shoe is on the other foot, doesn't it?
Sure glad I handled it with a little more grace.

 

[DaveGyro]

As the rotor turns tune in next week to see if our UK god can save us or who will Ron run down next .And I broke my EJ22 looking for old RAF project need eng and redrive WOW the noise when the crank breaks'

 

[GyroRon]

As the rotor turns tune in next week to see if our UK god can save us or who will Ron run down next .And I broke my EJ22 looking for old RAF project need eng and redrive WOW the noise when the crank breaks'

Not sure why you put my name into it Dave. I did not run down anyone. I commented way less than most did here in this thread.

 

[DaveGyro]

Just picking on you a little Ron is that skin on you getting thin? Use all that internet knowledge and find me an old rolled over RAF