MILLS GREGORY Air Commander N962GT

Steve_UK

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Found this among this months NTSB data -

""NTSB Identification: GAA16CA240
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, May 07, 2016 in Savannah, GA
Aircraft: MILLS GREGORY T AIR COMMANDER LRT, registration: N962GT

NTSB investigators will use data provided by various entities, including, but not limited to, the Federal Aviation Administration and/or the operator, and will not travel in support of this investigation to prepare this aircraft accident report. "

It says no more.

Hopefully Greg is OK and can tell us more.
 

Stan V

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Greg posted on our PRA chapter forum just a few days ago. No mention of any kind of accident!
 

Vance

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Greg’s last post on The Rotary Wing Forum was May 17 so he likely survived the May 7 crash.
 
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Steve_UK

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yes probabley unless Greg's account here has been hijacked............
 

Steve_UK

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That's all good to hear - now what happened
 

ultracruiser41

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Looks like a hard landing on a beach

Engine out ?? Gearbox ??

Hopefully Greg will let us know
 

Steve_UK

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not the Yammy
 

Vance

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There are a couple of things to address on the first post of the thread: (1.) This happened 5/14/16, not 5/7/16. (2.) Registration docs apparently haven't updated in the system yet, the new pink slip was on board.
I called the local FSDO about this very thing a few months ago and they were clear that as long as the registration is listed as expired on their website it is expired and not airworthy.

The current status on 962GT is expired 2/29/2016.

I checked the registration file and for 962GT this is the message I received.

No Aircraft Registration Renewal Application found waiting to be processed. If you mailed one, it may have already been processed. Please check the “Expiration Date” field below. If the date has been renewed, you should receive a new certificate in the next few days. If the date has not been renewed, we may not have received an application or there may be a problem with your application. For additional information, you may contact the Registry at [email protected] or by phone at 1-866-762-9434. The Registry is currently processing documents received on April 4, 2016

You should probably give them a call to find out what the problem is Greg.
 

All_In

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Sorry to hear about this Greg... Bummer!!

I called the local FSDO about this very thing a few months ago and they were clear that as long as the registration is listed as expired on their website it is expired and not airworthy.

The current status on 962GT is expired 2/29/2016.

I checked the registration file and for 962GT this is the message I received.

No Aircraft Registration Renewal Application found waiting to be processed. If you mailed one, it may have already been processed. Please check the “Expiration Date” field below. If the date has been renewed, you should receive a new certificate in the next few days. If the date has not been renewed, we may not have received an application or there may be a problem with your application. For additional information, you may contact the Registry at [email protected] or by phone at 1-866-762-9434. The Registry is currently processing documents received on April 4, 2016

You should probably give them a call to find out what the problem is Greg.
I'm confused by this as I'm in the same boat with the Archer as Greg is. Mine says it is expired when checking online.

As most know the FAA recently requires registered aircraft owners to re-register there aircraft. They send me a letter for Patches with a web-site and a code ID to enter and do it all online. That part worked however you have to sign it electronically under penalty of perjury and the FAA has spelled my name wrong as Roundtree adding a 'd' to it.

I knew this as it was on the hard card for years now even though when I called the FAA I told her do not put a 'd' in it. People who can spell just cannot help themselves my entire life.

So I contracted the FAA and told them the story I could not sign it the with the wrong spelling it has on the screen form. They sent me a new hard card spelled correctly after one month had passed and said they would correct the on line information to match.

However it took them 3 times with many emails and phone calls and 2 more months had lapsed for me to do it online and then I was not allowed to do it online by the time they corrected the spelling.

So I had to pay $5 and send a new hard registration form in by mail.
Now the confusion... It's says to keep the pink copy and it says on the pink copy that I can still fly Patches just keep the pink copy of the registration with the hard title card in the aircraft so that is why I'm confused by what they told you.
 
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Vance

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I'm confused by this as I'm in the same boat with the Archer as Greg is. Mine says it is expired when checking online.

As most know the FAA recently requires registered aircraft owners to re-register there aircraft. They send me a letter for Patches with a web-site and a code ID to enter and do it all online. That part worked however you have to sign it electronically under penalty of perjury and the FAA has spelled my name wrong as Roundtree adding a 'd' to it.

I knew this as it was on the hard card for years now even though when I called the FAA I told her do not put a 'd' in it. People who can spell just cannot help themselves my entire life.

So I contracted the FAA and told them the story I could not sign it the with the wrong spelling it has on the screen form. They sent me a new hard card spelled correctly after one month had passed and said they would correct the on line information to match.

However it took them 3 times with many emails and phone calls and 2 more months had lapsed for me to do it online and then I was not allowed to do it online by the time they corrected the spelling.

So I had to pay $5 and send a new hard registration form in by mail.
Now the confusion... It's says to keep the pink copy and it says on the pink copy that I can still fly Patches just keep the pink copy of the registration with the hard title card in the aircraft so that is why I'm confused by what they told you.
I don't pretend to understand how it all works John.

In my experience not everyone in the FAA sees things the same way.

The Van Nuys FSDO was very specific about this. I call the registration people in Oklahoma City and they too felt that the aircraft was not airworthy until it was updated on the website.

I express mailed everything in before the registration expired with the payment and it still took them three weeks because they processed it after the registration expired.

Just a heads up.

If you have an incident that involves the insurance company there may be some challenges.
 

All_In

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I don't pretend to understand how it all works John.

In my experience not everyone in the FAA sees things the same way.

The Van Nuys FSDO was very specific about this. I call the registration people in Oklahoma City and they too felt that the aircraft was not airworthy until it was updated on the website.

I express mailed everything in before the registration expired with the payment and it still took them three weeks because they processed it after the registration expired.

Just a heads up.

If you have an incident that involves the insurance company there may be some challenges.
You are so correct about different FAA officials not seeing things the same way.
We used to use that and keep shopping for a government official that saw it our way.

The forms are in the airplane or I would check to make certain I read it correctly. I will check it before I fly her and if I have an insurance problem I would then just use the words on the form as proof of it being legally registered and operated at the time.

Also if it was a new aircraft to me without the hard card this would not be allowed at all as then it is not titled to me yet. So maybe that is what the FAA officials were thinking of an explaining not the new re-registration rules where you already have a hard title card?
 
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JEFF TIPTON

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If aircraft registration has expired and a renewal certificate has not been issued, received, and placed in the aircraft, then the aircraft is without authority to operate.

Expired certificates cannot be extended. This is why the process starts six months before expiration, when prompt action will enable the timely delivery of new certificates, and leave a few extra weeks to recover from most inadvertent errors.

If your application was received by the Registry before the expiration date, even if there is an error, the Registry will work with you to complete the registration renewal process.

If a renewal application was first received by the Registry after the expiration date, the renewal process no longer applies. An aircraft owner may apply for registration of an unregistered aircraft under 14 C.F.R. §4731(a), by filing an Aircraft Registration Application, AC Form 8050-1, the $5.00 registration fee, and evidence of ownership (if it is not already on file at the Registry).

After the registration expiration date the Registry will send a notice to the owner to tell them when the N-number assignment is scheduled for cancellation. If the owner wishes to keep the N-number they must, before the cancelation takes place, send a request to the Registry asking that the aircraft's registration be cancelled and the N-number be reserved in the owner's name, accompanied by the $10.00 N-number reservation fee. If the N-number is canceled without being reserved, it will not be available for re-assignment or reservation for the next five years.

Aircraft registration issued due to renewal expires three years from the expiration date of the previous certificate.

Aircraft registration issued to a new, import, or reinstated aircraft entering or re-entering the U.S. Civil Aircraft Register expires three years after the last day of the month in which it is issued.

When an aircraft registration is not renewed, the cancellation of the N-number assigned to that aircraft will take place approximately 90 days after the expiration of an aircraft's registration. Upon cancellation, an N-number will be unavailable for re-assignment or reservation for a period of five years.

If aircraft registration has expired and no renewal application was filed, then application may be made to register the aircraft under 14 CFR § 47.31, using the standard application for registration and payment of the $5 registration fee. The process to reinstate a previously registered aircraft remains unchanged.
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/reregistration/
 

Steve_UK

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FAA says

""If aircraft registration has expired and a renewal certificate has not been issued, received, and placed in the aircraft, then the aircraft is without authority to operate.""
 

Steve_UK

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""After a non-emergency "off-field" landing, and during roll out for take off, the nose wheel got stuck in soft ground resulting in a rotor and prop strike.""

What was it that made you decide on an unscheduled out field landing, this may be the start of the accident chain.

Did you walk the "runway" at the "off field" location before proceeding to take off - was it seen to be wet n boggy.


UPDATE 24-5-16 -the quote above was taken directly from a posting by Greg which appears now to have been removed.
 
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All_In

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Thank you Jeff for posing that however it still has contradicting statements.

Here is what I found: Applications that arrive at the Registry after the file by date have arrived late in the processing time line and the new certificate may be issued after the old certificate expires. During this interim, the aircraft would be without authority to operate.

I interpret that has once expired the aircraft has no authority to be operated. Until you file a hard request before it is "canceled" to have it renewed because of the statement below.

However then there is this statement which should apply after you file the hard copy registration from:
Temporary operating authority, evidenced after the sale of a registered aircraft by retention and display of the second, or "pink," copy or the application for registration, will not be extended beyond one year from the date of the first application for registration filed.

Only the aircraft was not sold only re-registered in our case.
So I'm still confused. I'll email & call them and try to get them to tell me which rule applies in our case.
 

JEFF TIPTON

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They have made it somewhat complicated and have made some changes.

If your registration has not expired, you may renew online if you have the code that is in the first letter, up until the month of of the expiration.

If you are renewing in the month that the registration is expiring you must register by mail. You must register by mail also if you do not have the code from the first letter. They will not assign a new code.

If your registration expires the owner/operator may not operate the aircraft until a current registration is received in the mail. The owner operator is not allowed to operate the aircraft with the pink copy of the form AC 8050-1.

A person who buys an unregistered aircraft may operate the aircraft on the pink copy as long as the aircraft is airworthy with a current annual as long as the aircraft N number is still assigned to the aircraft. You can check this online at FAA.GOV.

I am told that an aircraft that is out of registration can not be issued a ferry permit to the current owner; although it might be issued to someone that has recently purchased the aircraft.

The easiest way to renew is online, so do not lose the code.
 
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